Nobody said that pasteurization makes anything ultra-processed.
Pasteurised milk is classified as Group 1 (Unprocessed or minimally processed food) in NOVA. Pasteurised cream is the same thing [1].
Pasteurisation doesn't have any stabilising effect.
I argued that the pasteurised cream added to the ingredients of the lafermiere yogurts is a stabiliser. The stabilisation effect comes from the increased viscosity of milk with added fat that helps the emulsion of milk and flavourings keep stable for longer than normal while milk sets during yogurt making.
I did not argue that the stabilisation effect comes from the fact that cream is pasteurised.
I argued that the lafermiere yogurt is a UPF because of the addition of pasteurised cream as a stabiliser.
I did not argue that the lafermiere yogurt is a UPF because of the pasteurisation of the added cream; or the milk itself for that matter.
And now I have to ask: in what sense could anything I said before be taken as a claim that pasteurisation is ultra-processing or that the lafermiere yogurts are UPFs because of pasteurisation?
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[1] If anything it has the opposite in that pasteurised milk tends to produce looser, softer curds than raw milk because it weakens protein bonds and causes calcium to leak out (soorta), hence the addition of calcium chloride to milk when making cheese.
Cream is usually made by centrifuging milk to separate the fat out, which should count as minimal processing and then pasteurisation itself is minimal processing on top. I doubt pasteurised cream counts as a UPF.
To be fair that doesn't really matter in yogurt making because milk is boiled anyway, which denatures milk proteins and we don't care if they leak calcium or not because we're not trying to make curd, as such, but yogurt. Not withstanding the fact that people in the Indian subcontinent call yogurt, "curd". Just a linguistic quirk.
The fact that lafermiere list milk and cream as "pasteurised" in their ingredients is probably something to do with marketing, to make it clear they aren't using raw milk, for whatever reason that might be necessary to clarify.
My fresh Rodopi ewe's milk yogurt lists as ingredient "full organic ewe's milk". They say nothing about pasteurisation and I doubt they even bother to pasteurise it since they're going to blast it with considerably more heat than for pasteurisation anyway. OtoH the difference may not be marketing but the fact that Rodopi get their milk directly from producers while lafermiere buy it second hand from dairy companies that sell it already-pasteurised. I mean the pasteurisation doesn't hurt. It's just unnecessary. So it's a bit weird that they clarify it in the list of ingredients.
You've lost me completely, sorry. I'm backing out now. The only reason we were talking was that you seemed to be asserting that it wasn't possible to do a non-UPF sweetened yogurt product, which, obviously no.
Yes that was my argument and it stands. The Kalona yogurt you showed is not UPF but I think the honey might be only in the bottom. The lafermiere yogurts are UPF.
Pasteurised milk is classified as Group 1 (Unprocessed or minimally processed food) in NOVA. Pasteurised cream is the same thing [1].
Pasteurisation doesn't have any stabilising effect.
I argued that the pasteurised cream added to the ingredients of the lafermiere yogurts is a stabiliser. The stabilisation effect comes from the increased viscosity of milk with added fat that helps the emulsion of milk and flavourings keep stable for longer than normal while milk sets during yogurt making.
I did not argue that the stabilisation effect comes from the fact that cream is pasteurised.
I argued that the lafermiere yogurt is a UPF because of the addition of pasteurised cream as a stabiliser.
I did not argue that the lafermiere yogurt is a UPF because of the pasteurisation of the added cream; or the milk itself for that matter.
And now I have to ask: in what sense could anything I said before be taken as a claim that pasteurisation is ultra-processing or that the lafermiere yogurts are UPFs because of pasteurisation?
_____________________
[1] If anything it has the opposite in that pasteurised milk tends to produce looser, softer curds than raw milk because it weakens protein bonds and causes calcium to leak out (soorta), hence the addition of calcium chloride to milk when making cheese.
Cream is usually made by centrifuging milk to separate the fat out, which should count as minimal processing and then pasteurisation itself is minimal processing on top. I doubt pasteurised cream counts as a UPF.
To be fair that doesn't really matter in yogurt making because milk is boiled anyway, which denatures milk proteins and we don't care if they leak calcium or not because we're not trying to make curd, as such, but yogurt. Not withstanding the fact that people in the Indian subcontinent call yogurt, "curd". Just a linguistic quirk.
The fact that lafermiere list milk and cream as "pasteurised" in their ingredients is probably something to do with marketing, to make it clear they aren't using raw milk, for whatever reason that might be necessary to clarify.
My fresh Rodopi ewe's milk yogurt lists as ingredient "full organic ewe's milk". They say nothing about pasteurisation and I doubt they even bother to pasteurise it since they're going to blast it with considerably more heat than for pasteurisation anyway. OtoH the difference may not be marketing but the fact that Rodopi get their milk directly from producers while lafermiere buy it second hand from dairy companies that sell it already-pasteurised. I mean the pasteurisation doesn't hurt. It's just unnecessary. So it's a bit weird that they clarify it in the list of ingredients.