I used to read Salon every single day, it was great. I'm reminded of this story about living in Japan from 1998 (that now seems pretty politically incorrect):
High streets in the UK are pretty dreadful. One saving grace is the proliferation of excellent kebab shops. Affordable, delicious and fast (not that kind) food. I wish we had more options like that in the US.
Are they really excellent? Kebab shops elsewhere in Europe are often associated with shady dealings. For example, in Finland a family will run one for a while for immigration fraud (while also dodging taxes), then hand it on to another immigrant family for rinse and repeat. Naturally, they serve the lowest-quality food they can get away with. In Poland many are owned by a mafia using exploited Bangladeshi labour to operate them with zero concern for food quality.
Modern döner-kebab meat is rarely the quality shawarma of a century ago. It is highly processed and basically a big hot dog.
Are you saying a hot dog flame kissed and scraped off with a knife and dumped into a pita with some yogurt/garlic/mayo/what have you sauce would not be delicious? Come on. People outside the US act all high and proud about the hot dog but literally every meat eating culture has some other scrap meat dish, sometimes its the whole anus rather than minced and put in a casing for you. Waste of the animal to throw out fine meat if prepared well.
Cultures may have traditional offal-based dishes, and indeed they can be delicious, but the meat is not highly processed, because that is something that came about only with modern industry. Just compare a photo of a hot dog or döner-roll mystery meat to one of those traditional dishes.
The press coverage and statements by police and tax officials are there for you to read. To get you started, here's one [0] from Finland's public broadcaster that is hardly a bastion of "racist propaganda".
Kebab stores, local entrepreneurs unwilling to hire a local and pay EUR 1500, private universities, slumlords. That's how immigration and visa frauds operate in Poland, yes. Then immigration and visa fraud is only on the surface, behind there is likely some more serious organized crime.
I lived in Britain for more than a decade and the thing I missed the most from the continent was good, German/Turkish style kebabs than the sorry excuse with a soggy pita they sell in UK.
As a Brit that’s moved to Australia let me say the kebab shops here are a revelation. The meat is nicely cooked, generally identifiable, and not swimming in grease. The bread is usually more like real Greek gyros bread, the salad fresh…
My memories of Kebabs in the UK is of very dubious slices of something coming off the elephant-leg at the back of the store, nothing you would ever consider when sober.
That's called shwarma and it's some of the most delicious meat known to man. Fun fact, tacos al pastor (possibly the best food of all time) is based on shwarma which Lebanese immigrants brought to Mexico:
And doner kebabs on sale in kebab shops in the UK are of very dubious origin. There have been a variety of scandals over the years about the origins of the meat.
About 20 years ago I read an article in the metro newspaper about the origins of the meat, a study having been done, which found that most kebab meat in the UK was not what it said it was. A significant proportion contained a mix of lamb, beef, pork and unknown meats. And at that time most of the allegedly 'halal' doners on the market contained pork.
Recently one of the UK's biggest suppliers of kebab meat was fined for selling doner meat that advertised 87% lamb, but was found to be using large quantities of fat and skin, with meat making up between 10 and 50% depending on which source you read. The 'meat' itself, where it was even from sheep was largely neck trim and mutton trim, and they were using goat as well without labelling it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy736xme2vvo
Maybe you found some good places in east London that were actually making their shawarma on-site. But the standard of a generic 'kebab' in the UK has always been known to be awful.
Visit the Levant and see real traditionally prepared shwarma. It is distinct cuts of meat put one by one onto a skewer. The meat is identifiable as actual muscle tissue of a particular animal.
Döner kebab in much of Europe is meat of dubious origin that has been industrially processed into a homogenized mass. Again, it is essentially a very large hot dog.
You can continue to eat that and enjoy it if you want, but to criticize the "elephant leg" moniker and claim it is "just shwarma" doesn't suggest you have much experience with this cuisine, just as your remark elsewhere about "criminal bankers" in a Nordic country (lol) doesn't suggest much experience with the world in general.
Are you neuroatypical in a way that makes it hard for you to grasp humorous coinages and why people find enjoyment in them? "Elephant's leg" is a bog-standard one. Calling people who use it "ignorant" raises more questions about you than it successfully casts aspersions on them.
Notice the homogenous, pink-slime sorta texture going on? And take a look at those ingredients...
Now, if you're going to places serving the former, cool! That's probably some tasty eating. But the latter is why kebab shops in the UK are held in such low regard.
No one here is insulting another ethnicity's cuisine, they are criticizing the quality of the meat that an eatery serves when it ostensibly is serving that cuisine. Notice how a parallel thread here is all about how to find better-quality kebab than elephant's leg, so people obviously want the ethnicity's cuisine. (And as someone from the European continent, I have heard "elephant's leg" locally, it is not just a Brit thing.)
Nevermind that across Europe, the workers hired to run elephant-leg döner joints for absentee owners are often from the Indian Subcontinent. It is not even their own ethnicity's cuisine, it's just the work they could get.
Again, your failure to understand these basic facts and propensity to misinterpret your interlocutors is baffling.
Take away kebab shops are the very bottom of the market for the most part.
If you want quality Turkish kebabs which are nicely cooked, generally identifiable and not swimming in grease you go to a Turkish barbecue grill restaurant.
I don't know how long you've been away but they're everywhere here now with not an elephant leg in sight. They'll even serve you a nice salad with bulgur wheat.
It's disingenuous to pretend that you can't get decent food in the UK if that's what you are looking for or that you can't buy terrible food in other countries such as Australia too.
About five years, I don’t believe for a second the market has changed that much across the country in that time.
Yes, you can get good Turkish food in a lot of places, and good Turkish food is delicious.
But the post I was responding to called out kebab shops in particular as excellent and I wouldn’t want people thinking they can get ‘good’ food in the average high-street kebab place.
Don’t get me wrong, it hits the spot after a skinful… but high-quality it is not. See my sibling post about the various meat-scandals.
> It's disingenuous to pretend that you can't get decent food in the UK if that's what you are looking for.
> Just as well I said nothing of the sort then eh?
I think you did.
I think you've presented criminal behaviour as if it's not an aberration.
You've ignored that there are good kebab shops and bad. That good high street kebab shops are common and sell more than just low quality donnas, including shish with fresh salad.
I never want to eat a donna kebab, so I don't order it.
I'll be waiting here for you to quote and link exactly where I did this -
"It's disingenuous to pretend that you can't get decent food in the UK if that's what you are looking for"
And “that you can't buy terrible food in other countries such as Australia too.”
Or you could apologise. Up to you really.
And until then I’ll be ignoring anything else you have to say, because I think what’s actually disingenuous is to make things up and accuse people of them.
> But the post I was responding to called out kebab shops in particular as excellent and I wouldn’t want people thinking they can get ‘good’ food in the average high-street kebab place.
You can in fact get excellent food at high-street kebab shops. That's my point. When I go to the UK it's literally what I survive on because the alternative (gellied eels anyone?) is completely inedible. You can also get haloumi from most of the good ones, which you can't in most places in the US.
I also don't know why people are calling it an "elephant leg", that's crazy. It's shwarma and it's delicious. I think racism and general UK/AU diet has contorted the perception here. People with more varied diets probably appreciate it a lot more.
It’s not shwarma at most of them mate, it’s highly processed doner, and the reason most of us would only touch them after 15 pints is we know what’s in it, or rather we know that we don’t know what’s in it. They’re extremely high fat and high salt, and there’s a multi-decade history of the manufacturers being busted for shenanigans.
Jellied eels? I don’t think most British people have ever eaten those except maybe on a dare.
I’m going to be charitable and assume you’ve only ever been to a small part of the East End of London, where you can get jellied eels (not the case in much of the country) and where there is likely a diverse enough community that actual decent shwarma exists.
Because if you’re eating doner kebabs regularly, from whatever vendor you come across in most of the UK, all I can say is you might want to check your heart health.
I mean most foods in the UK are bad for your health. Ham egg and chips (which I actually like) is hardly salt free. There's literally chips on or in everything. I've been all over the UK but tend to stay in East London precisely because it has the food I like.
Being a senior engineer doesn't really have anything to do with how long you've been developing. I've met amazing 21 year old developers who can out code people doing this for 20+ years in their sleep. I would say one of the reasons "seniors" are so much better with AI is because they have CS fundamentals. They know what to ask, they know systems design, they know what ACID is, they understand race conditions...
AI + CS allows you to develop with leverage I've never seen before.
If you make it far enough in the interview process to interview with someone technical, then this probably doesn't matter. If you get filtered out by the resume or HR stages, then I'm not sure how much it even helps you.
One of the things that comes with experience is more things moving from your personal unknown unknowns bucket to your personal known knowns and known unknowns buckets.
The substance is hard to see through the conflation of CS and software engineering. Do you actually believe that all there is to software engineering is CS fundamentals?
The UK police are literally today arresting peaceful pro-Palestinian protesters, so I'd say it has a lot to do with domestic policy. That's just a tiny tip of the iceberg, like you had a prince taken out by an Israeli spy!
Thank you. We've already seen what the future looks like, and it's models on a chip. It's several orders of magnitude faster at inference than anything else:
For the record, "the future" you are describing is running a tiny LLM from 2 years ago.
Those on-device weights are horribly outdated, underperform for their size, and cannot be updated to use a different model. I don't think Nvidia is afraid of Taalas.
There was a time when people were running less-capable minicomputers, but the future was mainframes.
There was a time when people were running microcomputers, but they were just toys; the future was mainframes and minis to do real work.
The way tech goes is that the "toys" become real. They become where the action is. The bigger stuff doesn't go away - there are still mainframes, even today - but the action moved on to microcomputers, and then to phones.
There will still be "big" models, but don't dismiss models on a chip because they are "toys".
Note well: I do not claim that models on a chip will certainly follow that trajectory. All I'm saying is that, given the trends in tech over the last several decades, don't dismiss them just because they are toys.
I don't see the microprocessor comparison here. Dedicated inference ASICs already have a great chip design parallel - ASICs. Most PCs and smartphones avoid ASICs entirely to control things via the SOC if possible. The most popular modern microprocessors are all generally not ASIC designs.
Crypto miners already charged down this route for mining, and now there are thousands of ASIC mining rigs that are worth nothing, when GPU rigs are resold at a profit. ASICs are a dead-end, and I think that's why Nvidia couldn't give a rats ass what Taalas builds.
That's a proof of concept created by a small startup. Obviously Intel or NVIDIA could do better. Given that it's ~50k tokens per second, even a lesser model opens up an entire universe of use-cases that we currently don't have access to, and that's locally.
I don't think it's obvious. The 8B model that the Taalas cards run aren't any larger than what a modern smartphone can inference with GPU compute shaders. Users don't need SRAM or dedicated hardware to get interactive tok/s at that scale.
To push beyond the envelope of what a mobile GPU can do, you'd have to build gigantic coprocessors for 30-100B models, which would probably cost more than the phone/laptop itself to integrate on-die. Nevermind the fact that SRAM is several times more expensive than DRAM gig-for-gig.
> It when will the past become good enough for daily use?
We should all know by now that it depends on who you are. For conversational use, toolcalling and structured response, it was a few years ago. For coding it will probably be a few months from now. And for advanced 3D/computer use/biology/engineering applications, we're probably looking at a longer time horizon.
We have GPUs and NPUs capable of accelerating models this size on-device, most of the time. Replacing that flexible logic block with a static ASIC is a downgrade, especially since users don't ever have 1000+ tok/s or batched request requirements. The on-device acceleration is perfectly fine for >8B model inference.
I get that people are starry-eyed, and that HN is supposed to be the place for curious inquiry. But creating a coprocessor that uses a redundant, static memory system that gives users no noticeable advantages is much more expensive and stupid than investing in a CUDA-style GPGPU architecture.
Any older models are better in many ways. Won't surprise me when we reach a point that new LLM models start collapsing in quality (while at the same time probably becoming better for the adtech industry), and older models are the premium.
If they can't privatize the loses, they should definitely not be allowed to privatize the gains. AI should be a public utility and be required to open source their models.
$1 billion for trafficking would be 100,000 trafficking victims at a rate of $10,000 per victim, which is claimed by LLMs and some Internet sites. It does not make sense and looks like another operation where ironically the trafficking was the cover.
In other words, we know nothing about the real dynamics that led to the "suicides" of Epstein and Brunel.
https://www.salon.com/1998/10/30/feature1_6/
Very, very different from what you'd expect from Salon in the later years.
I archived it, because the OP didn't really make it clear if salon.com is going offline or not: https://archive.is/PesDo
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