It's been selective for sure. I have a macOS app that has been approved within a day. There are two apps I submit for a client both have cleared review twice in the past two weeks within 24 hours.
On the other hand I have a personal iOS app that normally doesn't take long to approve that's been waiting two weeks.
I can respect a developer who is still smitten with their craft to feel a bit anxious when the topic of LLM generated code comes up. I have a child who never grows tired of building their next game but first has to build the engine from scratch (needless to say they've built a lot of engines, not so many games). This use to frustrate me but then I realized the joy is in making a concept of a game for them. When I suggest Claude might get the job done faster I get a death glare followed by an eye roll. I get it, I've been in the industry long enough where coding is more of a means to an end and not the same novelty it once was.
More dangerous are communities who shun AI and treat every disclosure like a Scarlett letter. Generally the loudest opinions come from consumers (fan bois) and not creators. I think this will eventually drive new innovators away from these communities. These vocal naysayers have likely never experienced being a project manager, lead developer, and QA for an agent writing code. Instead they think a prompt magically creates software, but without wearing all these hats at once, you get something far worse than 'slop'. Call me crazy, but I think these multi-hat 'developers' using an agent and are dipping their toe into LLM development are going to raise the bar and leave us vim users in the dust.
Just a couple points because your opinions aren’t wrong, they’re just your lived experience.
2. There’s no magic here. There is poor documentation. The biggest trick — small views, think about what values are going to trigger a refresh. Avoid cascading view refreshes.
6. You might have missed a couple big iOS releases (iOS 7 was one to remember) where many of our apps fell over in UIKit. Swift was another ‘DOA’ for YEARS with the same issues you’re making here, each new version broke the old, but here we are in a day and age where it’s the standard.
The magic is when you use things like @State or @Published and system does bunch of things hidden behind the scenes that the developer has no idea about. Then, when issues arise, the developer is unable to debug because they have no idea how these things work and what they really do.
This seems to be a popular ‘controversial’ topic. I’ve been using SwiftUI for production applications and games since 2021. I drop down UIKit, Metal, or core animation when needed. But that’s no different than when I was making games in UIKit and would drop down to core animation or glyph renderers written in C etc.
Data Flow: The author claims there’s no way to know when things update. Not only does experience help here but there are profile tools that tell you when and where things are updated. This isn’t black magic. Keep Views small, be careful how you hand around data. @environment is super cool but can have a cascade effect. This was greatly improved iOS 17+ and I wouldn’t support anything older than iOS 17.
GeometryReader: Occasionally I’ll use this. It’s kind of a necessary evil when dealing with certain view complexity. It can also be a sign that you’re doing something wrong.
API Stability and performance: Apple users upgrade. There’s no reason that you should be supporting iOS 17 at this point — even iOS 18 is roughly 2%% of our user base across several apps. I’ve been using SwiftUI without major performance issues but I also don’t early optimize. I profile and fix as needed. One of the early studios I worked for wrote all our games in UIKit as prototypes, when performance tanked we’d switch to the appropriate tools (eg. OpenGL) where it was necessary — like in the core game.
I could go on but in the end just use the right tool for the job, if you’re not proficient in SwiftUI or it isn’t going to work for your cross platform project, you have a lot of other alternatives. For me though, it’s been amazing to work with. I stepped away from iOS programming for 3 - 4 years because I was burnt out using storyboards, dealing with massive view controllers, and all the boiler plate it’d take to get a view up and going in UIKit. SwiftUI roped me back in.
* Quick addition edit: Cross platform for iOS, iPad, macOS has never been good. I’ve found recent updates have made things better to the point of tolerable and it’s nothing like when we had to post-fix an ~ipad to our Nibs — There has never been a ‘glory days’ of cross platform Apple UI libraries.
I was just thinking more or less along these lines - I haven't been in mobile apps for a few years now, but back then my impression was -
SwiftUI is great for "surface level" UI, that has some basic data bindings - think a basic CRUD app, which needs some navigation, and the ability to scale across the smallest iPhone to the largest macOS screen, from touch gestures to mouse input.
If you ask anything more of it, then you need to start branching off into specific libraries / tools / frameworks (UIKit, CoreAnimation etc) - which is much easier now too, but you'll always have a bad time if you try to mix the two in a single "view" / "frame".
It's a popular controversy here much the way React is a popular controversy here: people dabble in the new idiom but don't solidly master its basics; chaos ensues and consequently resentment.
Strong disagree on that. @environment is an amateurish hack, basically sugar-coating global variables as a solution to SwiftUI's poor design.
I had a strong background in UIKit; then for a product I'm building for myself, I decided to go all-in on SwiftUI. This was after it had been around for four years or more.
SwiftUI turned development, which I used to enjoy and feel good about, into a tedious trudge. I read everything I could, did the Stanford class, adopted "best practices," and really made an effort to do it right. It blows.
Unless your app is a trivial master/detail data-viewing app (as pretty much every SwiftUI example is), you wind up thrashing and performing all kinds of state-tweaking gymnastics to herd your application along through whatever tasks the user is supposed to be doing. Heaven forbid you need to walk the user through a series of steps to do or create something.
It's going to be a testing nightmare, and it suffers from every bit as much opportunity for data to get out of sync between the model and the UI as "traditional" app structure. Apple touts the "single source of truth" as gospel in SwiftUI, but you can't have that.
First of all, Swift's official position is that you should "prefer structs" over classes. But (and this is one of Swift's hokier characteristics) structs are passed by value (copied) instead of by reference. So your "single source of truth" is broken after the first function call; your data are copied all over the place.
But there's another problem with the single-source mantra: You can't just expose your core model to the UI for direct manipulation, so you have an intermediary (the so-called "viewmodel"). But that intermediary must have temporary data structures to shadow those in the core model, so the UI isn't messing directly with the model, and the user can cancel or fail when changing things without messing up the integrity of the model.
So now, once again, you don't have a "single source of truth."
The problem isn't understanding the paradigm; it's making it do useful work. Some people love to mock OO for its early and obviously cumbersome and pointless idioms, which were quickly abandoned by experienced programmers. What remains of OO is still quite useful.
I predict the same for... whatever the this mess is called. You waste so much time trying to follow the gospel of "MVVM" for no actual benefit. As I went through it, re-reading and re-digesting various pundits' viewpoints... I realized that I just had to start from scratch and build something that pays off instead of a bunch of useless ceremony.
I switched everything to classes, built managers (controllers) for the big categories of data and tasks I need to organize, and inject whatever objects I need into each view.
As for the rest of SwiftUI, its state is disgraceful. It excels at scaling UI for different screen resolutions; something that Apple neglected for waayyyyy toooo long. But there was no excuse for Apple to release a UI framework that basically didn't support the most fundamental UI paradigm of phone applications: a stack of progressive views that are programmatically manageable.
How many half-assed attempts has Apple trotted out, to do what UIKit does with ease? The latest is NavigationStack, which is still pathetic. The only way to navigate more than a level deep is to create an array of one datatype to serve as NavigationStack's "path." But this is designed to be an array of a single datatype. Look at the examples for this thing: They're applications that present a stack of views that each show... an INTEGER. In decades, I have never written an application that needed to stack up a pile of views that all show the same datatype.
And yes, I know the workaround for this where you create your own struct datatype and then fill it with enums, one for each view. But come on; the fact that Apple even rolled out this ludicrous design tells you that the talented architects have left the building.
I don't want to downplay your lived developer experience, I'm not fully following all your arguments but let me just say @Environment is a great tool. We've all used singletons, even more so in UIKit seeing how unintuitive key value observation was.
It's used a few different ways in the app I'm looking at now. One is to hold a source of truth for my API data models. This way I have a cache of say User that, when it changes for whatever reason - maybe invalidating the cache (read logout) or changing a profile image - is handed around to all my Views that need User info with @Environment(\.user)
Same thing with my analytics. Something like a MixPanel is only going to be created once. It's a singleton. You pass it around in an @Environment.
NavigationStack was a problem pre-iOS 17 and even a bit of a jam in 17 -> 18 and was glad to drop that version. But passing around an enum of values makes deep linking intuitive, yes there's a bunch of boiler plate - setting up an enum I guess - but deep linking was never easy. If you're not doing deep linking then a NavigationPath is really simple to use but I assume that's not what you were talking about.
I used MVVM for about 6 months and ripped it out. There's no reason to use that pattern in SwiftUI. It was popularized by certain iOS evangelists and caught on with the newbies (myself included). Your reaction to MVVM and useless ceremony is exactly the response you should have to a code smell that doesn't belong and it was mine too.
> The latest is NavigationStack, which is still pathetic. The only way to navigate more than a level deep is to create an array of one datatype to serve as NavigationStack's "path." But this is designed to be an array of a single datatype.
You can use a tagged union for the "one datatype", thereby allowing your views to accept any datatype you provide in the enum. Or use NavigationPath.
> The latest is NavigationStack, which is still pathetic. The only way to navigate more than a level deep is to create an array of one datatype to serve as NavigationStack's "path." But this is designed to be an array of a single datatype. Look at the examples for this thing: They're applications that present a stack of views that each show... an INTEGER. In decades, I have never written an application that needed to stack up a pile of views that all show the same datatype.
You should probably read more of the documentation than looking at examples, "to create an array of one datatype" its far from the truth. NavigationPath can be use to route to more than one type https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/navigation...
On the other hand I have a personal iOS app that normally doesn't take long to approve that's been waiting two weeks.