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They phrase it briefly like that for maximum coverage

Pose your question to them and they can say "sure if you need to finish our statement with...high standards to follow law... you do you"

Subject = our high standards

Predicate = whatever context you want to store here


They should outlaw financial engineering of human agency and build decision models developed and deployed within full public view that bubble up for vote national, regional, or local initiatives

But since government is a euphemism for the more verbose "humans whose biology drives them to select self" they will continue to mishandle the "affordability crisis" by propping up its roots, doing nothing to stave off future gilded ages


Curious if the author can provide examples of things we ever had ultimate control over?

None of us had a say in our existence itself. Skin color. If we cannot have a say over our provenance itself "ultimate control" is just an empty phrase.

Their concerns about big corp might hold some meager merit but "beware the avarice of rich people who view you as a sheep in their flock whether you want it or not" isn't really new.


This is ridiculous. You can nullify basically any argument by bringing up abstract philosophy that has very little to do with the issue at hand. "I want the ability to choose between A and B" - oh, but can you choose? Are you saying you have free will? What's to say the choice wouldn't be the same every time? And so on.

The point is very simple - there was once a day when we had considerably more control over the way we use computers and the networks that connect them. That is slowly being taken away, piece by piece, until the only path to use them is to 'consent' to whatever demands the corporations put up. Not that this doesn't exist already, but today will seem like the wild west in comparison to what's coming.

"Big tech is coercive and evil" isn't a new view, but "passkeys are one of their tools and not just some agnostic technology-first nerd solution" is still not widely known.


Yes you get me though my argument is the inverse; possible to assert any claim with abstract philosophy like "ultimate control"

And our agreement doesn't stop there. No views I encounter anymore at my near ripe old age of 50 are new anymore

Social conservatism whittles viable value statements down to a finite subset of cause-effect. And I don't mean just flag waving holy book social conservatism. This community is clinging hard to social tropes the other 8 billion are moving on from

Run a trend analysis on the comments of HN going back decades whole lot of repetitive gab about state management in a machine; chef or bash or llms... same old ground truth; don't speak too far outside the experience of readers or the inherent short term prediction engine in their brain will segfault from a biological memory overflow

Religious people are not the only ones who live in rhetorical fantasy

End of day the provenance of any socialized idea is some rando I have no obligation to march in lockstep with; physically or philosophically


This is about computer code. Debunking is either "it runs or doesn't". Not hard.

Presentation layer code doesn't control how the machine and kernel prioritize anything; so "proof" Ruby code is doing the right thing is proving the machine does the right thing from the factory.

As for abstract theory and math, well shit since any English and any math are...mathematically possible...well shit I guess we gonna have to live in the real world and not inside a rhetorical bubble; religious or atheist philosophy... cause they are not evenly distributed frameworks as religion clearly shows; so why live by the syntax and semantics of some mathematical rando who taught a stats class years ago?

Same shit as living by religious allegory

Goodhart's Law has come for 1900s means of scientific inquiry; every technology follows an S-curve and the same for every social society. In the US we aren't all defaulting to calling ourselves British or speaking Latin.

Physics will always be there. The stupid glyphs and bird song we came up with to communicate about it isn't physics. It's just a human language system.


Debunking can often be 'it runs but it's 100x slower than it should be'


I was responding to the "immense effort"

Performance issues in code just need an LLM now


By default, an llm isn't going to give harsh criticisms like 'you've architectured this thing completely wrong with a poor choice of abstractions and algorithms'. As the post says, you still need to think.


> This is about computer code. Debunking is either "it runs or doesn't". Not hard.

I have to ask. Did you even skim the article you’re commenting under?


Yep; tons of references to programming, Ruby, SQL, other technologies

None of which have much to do with how the hardware handles requests.

Am an EE with a background in applied physics and well aware we could jam a kernel in the BIOS/UEFI storage and generate the runtime state around it at boot from a prompt cause I am working on just that

Which is exactly where we are headed with Jev/decision models; they can generate new config to min/maxing per process resource use; look into bpf and sched_ext and meditate on their application. It should eventually jump out at you

We have known in the abstract how to handle computing efficiently on our machines since we started building transistor based machines

It doesn't require handing a bunch of meat suits verbose languages/bloated state machines to manually tweak the parameters of and make mess of electrical state management

Writing code is not high tech. It's 1970s and 1980s tech. As this forum should be well aware tech evolves with the times.

The coder bros refusal to move on is them clinging to a sunk cost fallacy; but they already put time and $$ into their education in ugly languages and DSLs that merely initialize values in memory and ask the hardware to run it within some spacetime constraints

The syntactic gibberish is just a barnacle of a bygone era

Social web addicted Millennials need to grow up and move on


> None of which have much to do with how the hardware handles requests.

How so?


... Code can run but not correctly solve the business problem for which it was written, or it can run poorly, slowly, unreliably, etc


We should bring back the tradition of child marriage and cutting off hands for stealing a loaf of bread

...wtf kind of argument is "this how it been so it is how it will be"

This forum has no room to argue it's a different kind of place.

Now that software is a dead end career cause AI HN is the same old blue collar Main Street dogma and tribal gibberish of any old typical bulletin board


> I say this as a person who hates tipping but mechanically leaves 20%

Thereby perpetuating cheap skate owners can continue to get away with labor exploitation and wage theft

You know the olds that put this social way in our heads are dead or too old to force our hand anymore

No need to continue to kowtow like an abused spouse; grandpas hand can barely lift a glass of water


It's a collective action problem, a massive scale prisoner's dilemma where if everyone cooperated we could be in a better world but that just sweetens the social rewards for those who turn traitor and keep paying the tip. And if we collectively do not hit the "tipping point" and force employers to pay better then the employees just suffer. And in the mean time I enjoy a meal that is cheaper than the market can bear because the whole system is propped up by this system of cost misdirection that I have sidestepped. So I am getting an unfairly cheap meal.

No one is worried about Grandpa's opinion here.


Disagree; dancing like a chimp for some coin jangling in grandpas pocket is where this sense of obligation to earn money started for us as kids

Sensory memory reinforces our agency more than philosophy; we're replaying visual memory just like we were shown

All these startups need to jump yeh high raises hand to arbitrary height to get funding because of gramps old rules

Better keep line go up for old rich will financially engineer this economy right off a fiscal cliff! (Google simpsons fiscal cliff for context)

And more specifically to the "no one is worried..." you should get out more cause I encounter "we owe it to our elders to carry on their ways for all they did for us" type conclusions a whole lot

We could collectively action around less stupid jobs like knowledge work. We're well outside the post WW2 rebuild that fostered "endless growth" mentality in elders

84% in the US live <100 miles from their childhood home collectively acting just fine

I think a majority are capably collectively acting where they are; not sure where you see a deficiency there


Wins on paper. The illegal acts continue.


Nah.

We have an Executive, Legisla...handful of outdated pants shitters, and SCOTUS

Oh and 10s of millions of <50 year old adults that outnumber the >50 cohort. Yet they're too afraid of an frail olds doddering off into their own inner world live on TV.

Thing is rest of the world been saying this about the US for decades but censored TV full of imagery like one might see painted over buildings in countries run by Dear Leaders; Americans are effectively socially the same low effort smooth brains as those in terror nations they bemoan.


party-line voters would be really mad if they could read this


Uhoh, looks like some party-line voters have HN accounts


The older politicians bring history, decorum and ceremony to the Congress.

I’m not a fan of term limits because they would allow megacorporations to buy influence too easily (with free retries every X years).

Establishment has flaws for sure, but de-stabilization is not one of them.

Steady state can only be achieved with balance.


I'm not a fan of term limits for many reasons, but the Democratic Party's strict adherence to decorum and ceremony are a part of why we're in the mess we are. They care more about decorum and process than actually helping people and stopping the rise of fascism in our country. I'm confident the next Democratic administration will try to "return to normal" and "reach across the aisle" just like every time they get power to the detriment of their voters.


Their strict adherence to decorum is intentional self selection and preference for preserving their own gains in life

They're people solving for the same biological imperatives we all are

Like gamergate "Dems this and GOP that" is just propaganda. Intentional obfuscating of the plain old biological motive that underlies their being

Conjure all the gibberish philosophy we want there's no waving off that imperative is still there


Part of this is that some people whine about reaching across party lines and working together when they start losing. Biden's responsibility to keep the country together and pander to far right, when shoe is othe foot it is about owning the libs.


Tell us you aren't paying attention without telling us you are not paying attention.

Wtf are you even on about?

But we don't have balance.

The typical age in Senate is "older than dirt" and it's not much better in the House.

That imbalance is fostering de-stabilization; maybe not for you cause you filled your bag or have generational wealth? Cause everyone I know has seen their wages go down 30-40% and grocery bill go up 50-60%


You gotta do better than compare an apple and orange to "steelman".

The risk of free speech and data centers are not comparable.

Aviation too is far more damaging to our environment than ships.

More ships and trains, less aviation is a possible trade off. A simple aviation or sailing argument lacks investigation of all possible tradeoffs for familiarity and personal preference; flying is faster.

Altman needs to accept the trade off we don't need OpenAI. That exists due to financial engineering not technical reasons. All AI work be done actually openly at america.gov

You say steel. I dunno. If it is it is inferior brittle steel.


https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2024/06/peak-population-projectio...

Infrastructure been built out with endless growth in mind.

Unless birth rates rebound, and if population does decline by 4-5 billion over 40-50 years we have more infra than necessary that will just crumble and rot and burn up more resources to maintain

Perhaps you meant saturation of individual needs. That’s harder to understand because such varies and not everyone agrees what are legit specific needs.

But generally we won't need more big infrastructure to account for fewer people actually needing


The parent are all talking about problems, and you're talking about physical infrastructure — very different things.


There is the option where your empty semantics argument isn't that clever

> Where is the evidence of saturation of need?

"Here's evidence of birth rate decline and argument saturation of infra needs is a possible realization."

You should learn how to ask for more context not assume your technically correct in a boring classroom interpretation of grammar and syllables way captures the cause-effect the OG author had in mind.


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