Zionism is the belief that Israel should exist. This whole "one jewish nation" stuff is ridiculous. Scientologists don't have a nation and they don't have a right to go genocide indigenous people to make one.
I won't be responding anymore to this thread since you're not arguing in good faith.
It's confusing because "Jewish" has both a religious and ethnic meaning depending on the context, while "Scientologist" would generally only have a religious meaning. This distinction is the source of a lot of confusion.
> they don't have a right to go genocide indigenous people to make one
I don't think anyone here is arguing that any group has the right to genocide any other group of people to create a new state, that is a straw man argument.
The actual arguments would be that war is not a genocide in addition to the fact that Jews are historically indigenous to the region. Israel also already exists so this isn't a matter of making a new state.
Israel fully depends on the US fighting their wars for them. It's not just the weapons and money we send, it's also cover in the UN and elsewhere, our media running Zionist propaganda and all of the wars we've fought on Israel's behalf. Let's put it to the test. No US support, only sanctions. Let's see how far they get.
> Israel fully depends on the US fighting their wars for them. It's not just the weapons and money we send, it's also cover in the UN and elsewhere, our media running Zionist propaganda and all of the wars we've fought on Israel's behalf.
You might not be aware but the super right wing Israeli's are basically all in favor of reducing Israel's reliance on the US because they feel this reliance puts too many restrictions on Israel since that support gives the US some ability to politically moderate Israel's actions.
> Let's put it to the test. No US support, only sanctions. Let's see how far they get.
This was basically the situation immediately after the founding of Israel when Israel was at its weakest. Israel was historically the most aggressive when it had the least amount of outside support.
He’s been doing it non-stop ever since. The only reason dang even did that is because he banned an anti-genocide poster and another commenter pointed out the double standard on this site.
The vast majority of Jews do support Israel having a right to exist.
> I’m told that’s antisemitism.
You seem to be conflating Jews supporting Israel having a right to exist with Jews supporting some particular actions taken by some Israeli's or Israeli government policies. One can support Israel having a right to exist while still being against specific government policies or specific actions taken by Israeli's.
> Israel can only exist via ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide.
Ethnic cleansing did happen, but it wasn't just in one direction. Apartheid is race based discrimination, Israel mostly just has citizenship based discrimination these days(like most countries). War is also not the same thing as genocide.
> Supporting its "right to exist" is to support all of those things.
Do you think the US has a "right to exist"? You can make an equally if not more plausible claim that the US could only exist via ethnic cleansing, apartheid and genocide due to what happened to the Native Americans.
> Not only would it be good for the Middle East, it would be good for the entire planet.
How would Civil War and Total Collapse of a nuclear armed state be good for the entire planet? Has Civil War with a Total Collapse of the state in general led to good outcomes anywhere?
> Imagine a US without Zionist influence?
What actual difference do you think that would make?
Nuclear armed Israel? They literally stole enriched uranium from the US to make that happen. Israel is nothing but a non-stop series of crimes against humanity.
Right, I'm curious how would Civil War and Total Collapse of a nuclear armed state like Israel be good for the entire planet as you've suggested?
> They literally stole enriched uranium from the US to make that happen.
I think there's probably more evidence that the Israeli nuclear weapons program initially was developed mostly in cooperation with France. After France stopped supplying fuel in the wake of the 1967 war apparently Israel did steal yellowcake from a Belgian mining company.[0]
Yes, Israel has spied on and stolen nuclear material from many countries, answering your own question as to why the world will be better off without them.
> Yes, Israel has spied on and stolen nuclear material from many countries
I'm pretty sure most countries spy on many countries.
> answering your own question as to why the world will be better off without them.
That wasn't my question, the question was how would Civil War and Total Collapse of a nuclear armed state like Israel be good for the entire planet as you've suggested?
I'm not avoiding anything. The only country that has ever used nuclear bombs on a population is the US. Both the Soviet Union and South Africa had nuclear weapons and were successfully dissolved.
You're avoiding answering how it's supposedly a good thing for the world for there to be a civil war and total collapse in Israel as you've claimed.
> The only country that has ever used nuclear bombs on a population is the US.
This is relevant how?
> Both the Soviet Union and South Africa had nuclear weapons and were successfully dissolved.
South Africa still exists as a state last I checked. The Soviet Union was an organized dissolution and Russia retained the Soviet nuclear arsenal while invading other states unprovoked. You've asserted that "Not only would it be good for the Middle East, it would be good for the entire planet." in regards to Civil War and Total Collapse in Israel, do you actually believe this to be the case? I suspect you actually don't because when asked you are unable to say how that would be a good thing for the world.
Why is this "antisemitic" when it's the clearly stated goal of Israeli leadership? We're also commenting on a post where Israel destroyed an entire city. There's a great twist of propaganda where people are more upset at people being upset about a genocide, then they are about the actual genocide. Expecting that to work is an "avalanche of stupidity".
Under-reportedly, many thousands from Russia, Europe, Asia, Africa and of course Palestine were lured in via social media, messaging platforms and job websites are offered jobs but ended up in their sex industry, do forced labor and/or have their organs sold.
Officially it isn't allowed but the police wont do anything. You can see how it works in how angry they were when raping Palestinian kids in prison wasn't allowed anymore.
Hamas has every right to resist. Unguided rockets? There's IDF in nearly every building in Israel. The excuses used to genocide Palestinians far more aptly describe Israel.
The first key feature of the Panopticon is that the guards can observe the inmate at all times and he can't hide.
The second key feature is that the inmate can't observe the guards. He can't know who they are and can't even know if they're paying attention to him or not.
Yes, an here in lies the hypocrisy of our times where tech titans can have their information removed from public data sources (anyone remember the guy tracking Musk's plane?) while amassing staggering quantities of data about everyone else. Then have the gall to call for a "compromise" on their collection and selling of this data and our privacy.
There are no entities on earth I trust less than US corporations and the US government (well, Israel but you’d have to literally be suicidal to willing use Israeli tech). I’ll happily give China my data. As far as I’m concerned, they’ve proven themselves to be a force for good, or at least neutral.
As a US citizen I have domicile over the data and a legal system that has some claws. We tend to enforce and celebrate IP whereas China openly scoffs at its premise.
Frankly I don’t trust any of them. Certainly not Anthropic after they refused to delete my Cowork session. Certainly not OpenAI with their duplicity. I’m a Google workspace subscriber so I use Gemini, but only with logging disabled and for throwaway searches.
I will go at the pace that hardware I control lets me. That happens to be pretty damn slow ATM… waiting for 45 minutes for my 4090 to pp 30k tokens wasn’t much fun the other day, but it got the job done. If speed were a priority I’d propose be renting time on vast.ai or something.
Good. Over the past few years, VCs have proven that they’re warmongering psychopaths. Hopefully China puts every last one of the Palantir/Flock/Anduril class out of business.
Not that I'm anti-China, but their companies would have no qualms selling surveillance tech to your local gov too if they could. I'm sure Palantir, Flock, and other US companies would sell to China too if they could.
This is true, but there is another foreign country that can send people to your door. What's to stop China from eventually buying that type of influence over our govt officials?
If our govt officials are willing to betray their citizens for money to China, what’s the point of preferring to give them power over us instead of giving it to China?
Given the nations that have actually bought influence over our government officials, China would be an upgrade. I doubt the president needs another decked out 747 though.
I won't be responding anymore to this thread since you're not arguing in good faith.
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