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The naming of these Gemini 4 models is ridiculous.

In order of sophistication and cost, the models are Hydrogen -> Argon -> Carbon.

What kind of ordering is that?!?

With the introduction of Hydrogen, it's no longer ordered alphabetically. That would be Argon → Carbon → Hydrogen.

And it never was ordered by atomic mass, which is arguably the best ordering if you're going to name your model classes after chemical elements. That would be Hydrogen → Carbon → Argon.

It's also not ordered by prevalence in the universe. That ordering would also be Hydrogen → Carbon → Argon.

It's not ordered by electronegativity, boiling point, melting point, or any other remotely defensible chemical property I can think of.

It's not even ordered by letter count, Scrabble score, or NFPA 704 Flammability Rating, all of which would be Argon → Carbon → Hydrogen.


Per Business Insider[0], Argon and Carbon were part of an alphabetical lineup:

> An internal document shows that Google has tested a series of Gemini 4 models, internally named Argon, Barium, and Carbon.

Then I suppose they tacked on Hydrogen since it's supposed to be a "light" model and hydrogen is the lightest element. I agree that it's super confusing though.

[0] https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employees-test-new-ge...


Density at standard temperature and pressure? Carbon admittedly has a number of forms at STP but they're all solid and thus heavier than argon gas.

Density of the most common (on Earth) allotropes at STP, perhaps?

Or maybe they just pick them out of a hat.


nodejs release names

alphabetical skipping the weird names

next would be iron krypton and lithium


+1 to this the naming is totally opaque and ridiculous.

There is no hint of what each one does. I get that these were internal code names, fine, but to everyone outside Google it's not helpful to have these meaningless names.

ChatGPT and Claude aren't much better - there is still quite a lot of assumed knowledge there assuming you know what e.g. a sonnet is and what an opus is - but at least if you squint there is something there.

Google's names just seem to be randomly generated.

Maybe they were worried that the 3.1 Pro model being around for so lunch ruined the brand? But 3.8 Flash was pretty decent I thought so it's not like "flash" was burnt. I dunno.


The choice is really odd. Hydrogen and Carbon could have an organic chemistry theme going if they chose Oxygen, but then they go with Argon? Anthropic and Open AI have the names figured out in terms of obvious size: Luna->Terra->Sol->Astra and Haiku->Sonnet->Opus->Fable->Mythos makes intuitive sense. I have no idea how the Google model size class works.

I know some people are still a bit confused by astra, sol, terra, and luna, but at least you can explain the reasoning and it makes sense. Google's new naming scheme is just pure luna...cy.

I don't know why but this post reminded me of the show(books) Altered Carbon.

Also totally agree. What a bad way to name models...


We'll know they've achieved super intelligence when tech companies suddenly have sensible product names.

Yeah, they really fumbled the naming scheme for this batch of models.

At this point even using Starbucks sizes would be better.


I now believe that they're trolling.

If I were considering this as a Christmas gift for a 16-year-old who likes making things in Garage Band, would the Lite edition still be a step up, or should I more seriously consider the next level up?

If you buy them a midi keyboard or controller it will usually come with a lite or introductory license. The push is fun but a real keyboard feels special and the pads and sliders and knobs really make Live feel like a real instrument rather than just a piece of software

That said you do get a ton of cool stuff with the higher editions

A subscription to splice or other sample/preset libraries opens up a world of possibilities as well

Having the full edition also makes it possible to use more of the example projects and templates out there, and you can follow along with the tutorials from Mr Bill too!


This is the best option by far. Lite/Intro is currently $80 on sale, but for $10-$20 more, you can get an MPK mini [1] which includes it. That version is limited to 16 tracks, but I mean... that was enough for most people up until the 90s.

[1] https://www.akaipro.com/mpk-mini-4/


They bumped it from 8 tracks? Hey that's pretty cool (though, I always kinda liked that Ableton Lite was just an 8-track player)

+1 on this.. hardware is really what makes Ableton shine, Launchkey series all flow super well with Ableton and allow you to throw things together super fast.

If they like Garage Band already, why not Logic Studio which is a “grown up” version of Garage Band?

I'd advocate for this as well. It's not hard to switch between DAWs, but if they are already familiar, they'll enjoy Logic.

I recommend GP just ask what kinds of things they might want. Or for a budding musician, a music store gift card would be really appreciated. I recommend Sweetwater (in the US.)

DAWs and MIDI controllers are sort of like keyboards, notebooks, or text editors. They all do the same things, but when they're your primary work surface little idiosyncrasies add up to flow-wrecking annoyances.

Lots of people love Logic, but I'm not one of them. It's not anything wrong with the product, it's just that Live clicks with my brain in a way that Logic doesn't. The Live interface has things arranged where I expect them to be. Logic hides everything in drawers.

That said, your teenager might be using Garage Band because they really like it, or they might use it because it's free and what they have. On the controller side, if they have experience with piano, they probably want a keyboard. If they don't, they might or might not want piano keys. If they do play piano, they will have preferences about key feel and size. My old piano muscle memory can't handle mini keyboards, for example.


Eh, I find the workflow and UI of Logic clunky. I prefer Ableton, also there are more resources online and it's better for live performance. Second best for me would be Fruityloops.

Lite is the "free" version, the first real edition is called "intro".

You get lite with hardware purchase or in some magazines.

https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209775685-Get-a-L...


I'd say Ableton lite is still a step up, and gives you familiarity with the Ableton interface, which means you are primed for using one of the bigger editions. However, if said 16-year-old does not currently have a midi keyboard / controller I would look at buying one that includes bundled Ableton Lite as the gift. Something from the Novation Launchkey range would fit the bill.

Ableton suite is amazing because of all the content you get with it (instruments, effects, samples), but lite comes with enough to get you going and you can always add vsts and samples from 3rd parties.


You don't usually purchase the Lite version, you get it with like a $50-100 worth of hardware from the likes of AKAI or Novation or whatever.

It has a hard limit of 8 tracks, Intro doubles that to 16, while Standard is the first version without limitations. Intro should be more than fine for most beginners.


Lite is far too limited and you can't buy it on its own anyway, it only comes included with various hardware. Intro is limited to 16 tracks, Garage Band to 32 tracks. There's various other limitations too. Ableton has generous educational pricing though (50% off).

To make it a gift comparable to Garage Band, I feel strongly that Standard edition would be the right play. Lite doesn't necessarily feel like a benefit to Garage Band beyond setting you on a more formal track for digital audio work.

+1 to the other recommendations to get them Standard, Intro is pretty limited for an "upgrade" (coming from a daily user of Suite).

rutracker.net

I would not be surprised if this per-session is to cover credit card processing fees.

But what would be nice is being able to preload a balance and get hit with the fee only once.


I miss the old CashKeys[1]. Some cities had a digital 'key' (basically an EEPROM in a funky key-like TRRS form factor) that you could buy and preload $10-20 at a time on. When you clicked them all the way into the meter, it acted like you inserted one quarter. You'd pull it out a click and click it back in, and it'd drop another 'quarter' in. Repeat as much as you needed, and you could mix the CashKey with actual coins being dropped in the slot.

They lasted to the mid-2010s, when Duncan stopped selling keys and software and eventually, support.

[1] https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0816/08/duncan-...

https://ggwash.org/view/35377/its-a-little-harder-to-pay-for...


I didn’t think I’d run across something even less convenient and slower than using quarters - but here we are.

Is it? If it's just on your key, you get out, park, shove the dongle into the parking meter a couple times, and walk off. Every few days you stop by one of the various shops that could reload it, shove the key in, give the clerk some more money, then not have to think about a pocket full of change.

Literally all the same steps as quarters, except you can’t use it to buy anything else, and need to refill it only at a special place - instead of anywhere that handles cash and can make change.

Every place I’ve been, the fee isn’t charged if you use the pay station with your credit card. It is only charged if you use the app.

I'm a Delawarean, and I have done research and reporting about the state's unique role in corporate America.

You may wonder why two-thirds of the Fortune 500 are incorporated in Delaware. Is it because the cost of incorporation is lower than in other states, or because corporate tax rates are lower? Those are factors, but they are not the primary reason. The primary reason is risk avoidance, and in particular legal risk avoidance.

Delaware benefits from a flywheel effect: Because so many companies are incorporated in the state, its Chancery Court has a more developed set of case law than other states, and so outcomes of lawsuits involving corporations are more predictable -- which makes it an even more attractive place to incorporate, which continues the flywheel effect.

The down side is that the state is incredibly dependent on corporate licensing fees and escheatment. States like Nevada have, in recent years, been competing against Delaware as a corporate haven, and if we start to see a significant migration, we'll be in a real pickle, because the state imposes no sales tax and has relatively low property taxes.


DE law is also, broadly speaking, favorable to corpos -- they didn't just go there because common law got hashed out. Plenty of other east coast states with long histories and lots of lawsuits.

but the parent poster is correct: it is unambiguous and well litigated in its benefits and downsides.

even if the benefits are only mild, it makes it easy to map out and control the legal risks.


Off topic: I’ve never seen a flywheel analogy that actually understands what a flywheel is. People love to use it to describe a forever growing thing, when it’s actually just a buffer.

I was about to comment on this too. Isn't what the parent comment describes a virtuous circle?

A quick online search returns mostly business related articles so I guess it's some corporate analogy.


> Isn't what the parent comment describes a virtuous circle?

I'd rather call it a positive feedback loop.


In this case, the flywheel analogy only demonstrates is that there is low friction in the legal system aspect.

If we are talking about a flywheel as an energy storage, low friction is a key component of its ability to store energy as a buffer. If this was not the case, the flywheel would lose its energy quickly on its own and the buffer would be gone.

> People love to use it to describe a forever growing thing, when it’s actually just a buffer.

A thing has other characteristics other than its intended purpose. Your assumption that you need to use intended purpose for a successful analogy is false.


The parent was not making an argument about low friction.

Ah yes, I too have noticed the "prevalence of flywheel-analogy-misuse" flywheel.

My only use case for this is animating custom Slack emojis.

But trust, I'm a have a field day with that.


This reminds me of a billboard I saw about 15 years ago when the state of Delaware was considering changing its laws to permit new casinos in addition to the three that had been grandfathered in when the restrictions went into place.

Delaware Park, one of those three casinos, put up a billboard opposing the bill, and it said, "No more casinos! THREE IS ENOUGH!"

It just goes to show that corporations will take any position -- even a casino taking an anti-casino position -- as long as it's self-serving.


I am a big fan of both enclose.horse and gerrymandle.com. I play both daily.

But this rip-off of gerrymandle.com makes me feel less inclined to continue playing enclose.horse.

And yes, it is a rip-off, not merely a riff on the general puzzle game of this type.

It's akin to joke stealing among comedians. It makes you lose respect for the joke stealer, even if their original stuff is good.


Aren't they both ripoffs of the 2019 boardgame Mapmaker?

(Great Kickstarter, they played games of it on the steps of the supreme Court, and had pledge levels where you could have copies sent to your Congresspeople or the court)

Mapmaker: The Gerrymandering Game, via @Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1639370584/mapmaker-the...

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/252997


Not really, they're not ripoffs. Maybe loosely inspired, but besides the hexes and the theme, they look to be mechanically different. The board game is a competitive versus game, not a set of puzzles; it has varying numbers of voters per hex; the game board is of a preset shape and not freeform.

The game in the post is basically identical to Gerrymandle, they're far more similar to one another than either game is to what you've posted.


On the steps of SCOTUS, not Congress, curiously....

It's the same developer...

What’s your source on that? The owners of Enclose.horse don’t list gerrymandle as one of their games: https://clevergoat.com/all-games

He means that enclose.horse and elect.horse are from the same developers.

(which isn't true btw, enclose.horse was sold by the original developer)


I mean to say that it's owned by the same people

Shivers (the original developer) sold it to them.

That's what they are saying. That the enclose.horse people ripping off gerrymandle makes them like enclose.horse less.

To the other commenters: @jawns means a rip-off of gerrymandle.com

But even gerrymandle is a rip off of a NYT game that never left beta: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/us/politics/congres...

There's a enough of a branding and storyline difference for me to love elect.horse


It literally says “also by us: enclose.horse”

lol we know it's by the same people as enclose horse, the issue is that it rips off gerrymandle

It's from the same people!

I think the clear association to enclose.horse makes it just another cute take rather than a rip off.

I can understand alphabetical ordering in some circumstances, but if the point is to indicate which model family is lighter or heavier, surely atomic numbers should be taken into account?!?

Argon - 18

Boron - 5

Carbon - 6

I don't think I'll be able to cope with this level of elemental disorder.


It's gonna be even worse then they name the 11th iteration Potassium.


They'll never get there since there's no J at all ;)


The naming is elementary, my dear Watson.


I thought Carbon for composable stood well on it's own marketing. As did Argon, for impervious. Next to one another the pair comes off utterly cockeyed and sleazy.


I've been a user for more than 20 years. With their shared hosting plan, which was about $5/mo. when I joined and is now $13/mo, I've been able to host my personal blog and professional site, as well as probably 3 dozen other sites over the years, including several that have hit the HN front page and never got hugged by the squeeze of death.

Honestly, compared to some of the professional environments I've worked in, it's a joy to have an idea, create a few PHP files, and in a matter of seconds have that idea live.


I know the log scale of that chart is valuable when surveying the full breadth of possibilities, but I would encourage people to make decisions between nearby models based on linear scaling. Linear cost is often more useful for making the actual decision.


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