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We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.

I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.


Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.

I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.

Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".


> Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life.

When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.

Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.

Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.

Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.


>Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.

buy professional stuff that's expensive, not consumer gadgetry expensive.

a samsung fridge is expensive because of the gimmicks and high tech integrations.

a sub zero fridge is expensive because of the build quality and manufacturer network , part re-use and larger consumer part availability and market.


Funnily sub-zero fridges are considered the samsung of the semi-commercial brands. They prioritize things like customizable doors and easy to break but consumer loved features like ice makers and water dispensers. You will never see sub-zero in actual commercial kitchens.

Yes, I could have done without the ice maker. It never broke, but it did have a tendency to turn the ice cubes into a solid block.

The previous house I moved from had a Subzero fridge in it from 1990. It was serviced in 2012 and was still running strong when I left. One thing that pleased me was the easy access to a parts catalog and the ability to easily order replacement parts. Some of the tray slides had cracked and I just ordered them online after consulting the catalog. I know the unit cost a fortune in 1990, but decades of service and the ease of ordering parts was certainly nice.

Many 250 appliances are targeted at landlords who care that the applicance is cheap and works for years without complaints. They don't care about features - they will never use them - just that it is good enough to check the box and the users don't get so mad they complain. They also don't care that it looks good so you get things that look cheap but last.

Note that I said many above. there are also 250 appliances built for the penny wise and pound foolish - they will break in a few years (just long enough that the warranty is up).

Even knowing that though, often there are features of the more expensive appliances that while not needed are nice enough that I'm willing to pay extra.


> Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.

Washing machines are a solved problem and it does not need a high tech solution. A good, reliable motor and good weights is pretty much it. No need for brittle over-engineering, fragile touchscreens or temperamental sensors.

When I had to buy one, I got a basic Beko* because they are usually good with replacement parts, and it had the bare minimum in terms of electronics. It was also one of the cheapest, but that’s a consequence of the other criteria more than something I optimised. I would be reluctant to get a no-name Chinese one, even if it is cheap. Anyway, it’s been going for 5 years now just like on the first day. Very happy with it.

> He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.

Fridges are also a solved problem. It’s just a cooling loop with a radiator on one side and a pump in the middle, and good thermal insulation. Using three of them in 10 years is not very impressive, decent ones should go forever. There is no reason why one should fail before 10 to 15 years.

> Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.

Definitely. But I would not say that going for cheap is the best strategy. Going for simple and sturdy is, and it is usually correlated with being cheap. But there’s also a lot of cheap disposable crap.

* I am not sure how well they are known around the world, it’s a Turkish brand. Their stuff is built mainly in Turkey and in my experience sturdy and easy to fix and repair, if a bit bare bones features-wise.


The curious thing about fridges is RV fridges run off propane/DC/AC, have no moving parts, and when in use are constantly jarred due to road motion, and never break down -- nothing to break. Unfortunately, these absorbtion fridges tend to retail for high prices. I saw a Brazilian made one running off unscrubbed digester gas fed from the excreta of two immense pigs on a farm in Belize in 1996.

My 2004 RV has one and runs whenever I need it. I'd insall it in my house but I'd need to build a cabinet, chimney and gas piping for it first... so instead I have to listen to a compressor spinning when it runs.

No obsolescence, no spare parts, no breakdown, no posibility for continuing profit. Bad ideaQ


They’re also substantially less efficient. No full size fridge would ever use them because they’d chew tons and tons of power to cool in a residential house.

Awesome tech! Just generates heat and is inefficient compared to a compressor so it is less popular in the US. There are also electric absorption fridges.

> I got a basic Beko because they are usually good with replacement parts

Can confirm this. My mum has broken two drawer fronts in her Beko freezer and I was pleasantly surprised with how easy it was to get replacements.


Samsung/LG don't know how to build reliable white home appliances, or don't want to. Or black ones for that matter (remember FUBAR with Samsung bricking their expensive surround system for good? Not so long ago).

No reason to buy those when you have ie some basic Bosch stuff. TBH smart stuff should be left to computers and phones, rest should be dumb as brick. But folks keep buying it for some reason (ie hey Samsung makes good phones, lets buy their fridge), hence crapware everywhere.


In my family we have 3 fridges, 2 washers and 2 dishwashers, and our experience a bit different than the rest of the thread.

The fridges are dead-silent and working great for 7+ years. Washers are also nice, washing for a bit too long but don't wear the clothes down and have better stain removal performance than their peers, and dishwashers are extremely slow and not designed for European market. Their baskets are not suitable for our dishes, we can't fill them efficiently even.

So, from experience their fridges are A-OK, washers are great with some caveats, but dishwashers are not good.

My first choice is still BSH group and Beko, but Samsung is acceptable if required, but LG? Ain't nobody got time for that.


My Samsung fridge worked fine for ten years and then broke down. Apparently it was the first generation of some new compressor or something and it was known to be problematic. The new ones come with an extra long warranty on that bit

The fridges we have at least 10 year warranties on the compressor, that's right. Considering the last fridge we had worked for ~20 years, I'm eager to see how planned obsolescence will play on these, yet they work pretty nicely.

My own Siemens fridge is with me for ~14 years, as well.


Right now all the new refrigerators seem to have 2 year warranties, even the ones from Costco. At least they give you extra extended.

Last fridge I had was a Kenmore Elite with 10 year warranty, it failed to the same compressor issue that has been plaguing the LGs. It was replaced once under warranty but that failed 3 years later.

Just got a GE; first one was DOA, didn't cool at all. My thermometer is saying it's replacement is currently sitting at 44F when it is set at 34F, I have had it for 2 weeks....


It’s pretty well known in the US that LG washers perform better and have a far better parts and service network than Samsung. You think whatever you want though.

I'm not in the US though. The models, their performance and service networks are way different.

I have replaced shock absorbers and power switch of a 15 year old Beko washing machine last year, and it cost me 6$ plus workmanship to get genuine parts installed in 20 minutes.

I bet that won't be very possible over there, though.


> It’s pretty well known in the US that

If you're going to get snitty, cite your claim.


Yale Appliance, Harper and Knowles. But I'm not sure why you think a snitty "but LG? Ain't nobody got time for that." deserves a more rigorous reply on an informal commentary site with delusions of grandeur. Like I said to the other dude, believe whatever you'd like. But if you're out in the sticks and you can't do your own service you probably shouldn't buy either.

Oh, somebody called me out. Hello, I’m the other dude. Let’s break down my grandeur delusions.

I remember LG as Goldstar from my Grandma’s microwave oven. That was not something unreliable, but rather unremarkable appliance with no glaring problems. It was eh. Then they became LG.

I remember their other electronics. AC units, phones, TVs, optical storage devices. All of them were either okayish or below that. Phones? Sub-par even if they were innovative. TVs? Unreliable and lower quality than their peers. Optical storage? Can’t read a disc it burned 30 seconds ago, or can’t rip an audio CD correctly, or broke in a year.

I have seen so many LG devices fail or fail to meet their own specs they advertised with in my life, I have sworn to not buy any LG device ~25 years ago.

I somehow had to buy one of their portable DVD burners because I needed something quick. It failed to read a pristine CD other drives read at full blast after taking it out of its box.

So, please tell me I’m delusional. Invalidate my experience I collected over decades. Tell me about my grandeur.

I can tell you how many Samsung devices I have still continue to run or outlived their expected lives in another comment, if you feel like reading it as well.

I’m waiting.


Nobody called you out. You really can believe whatever you want. The delusions of grandeur comment was clearly not addressed at you personally (“site with delusions of grandeur”). Touch grass, seriously.

> buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan

Expensive consumer appliances aren't always the same quality as expensive professional appliances.


>It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.

I replaced my AEG washing machine last year after ±10 years of service. The new one, also roughly 200 euro, uses a fraction of the energy, and cleans better. I should have swapped it out way earlier to save money.


> I should have swapped it out way earlier to save money.

Repeat that calculation after 9 more years.


Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers

There was a US lawsuit against them for their linear compressors: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/consumer/fridge-failures-...

> There was a US lawsuit against them for their linear compressors: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/consumer/fridge-failures-...

Out of all the fridges that LG sold, what percentage had issues? LG sells a lot of units, so even small percentages may end up with 'critical mass' of problems that gains wider awareness.

An article from an appliance retailer that has their own in-house service department, and so has statistics on repair rates of the various OEMs that they sell:

* https://blog.yaleappliance.com/lg-compressor-class-action-la...

Looking at service rates in total (for all issues), LG has the lowest number out of all the manufacturers they sell/service:

* https://blog.yaleappliance.com/the-best-counter-depth-refrig...

* https://blog.yaleappliance.com/most-reliable-counter-depth-f...


Yes, recently replaced an LG refrig with that issue. Its second linear compressor in eight years was dying the way the first one had (four years after purchase, with the sympathetic repairman telling us this second compressor was the “fixed” model and should last for quite a few more years), so we bailed on it. Its 1985-vintage Whirlpool predecessor had worked for 32 years, FWIW.

Must be a different branch than the TV's, which spy on what you're talking about

I understand the axe to grind, but what about their spy tech hurts durability or warranty prospects; the thing your comments' parent was talking about?

Do you not think it's relevant to mention to people that the appliance that they have in their house might be listening to everything they're saying and uploading it to LG's servers? A quick Google search shows that LG has WiFi enabled dishwashers/washing machines.

If you can disable the spying, then it's an irrelevant factor in the purchasing decision.

Would you prefer an A-grade quality appliance that can spy but that spying can be disabled, or a B-grade appliance that doesn't spy but needs replaced in three years?


I would prefer not to financially support a company that doesn't spy on me, even if it costs me a few hundred dollars more.

Simply providing a "smart" appliance is not damning the entire product line.

LG washers and dryers have consistently been one of the most reliable appliances I have owned.

Other than minor design flaws like lettering that wipes off if laundry detergent contacts it (older models), that was the only issue I’ve had in 11 years.


My LG washer and dryer are just over 10 years old now. They haven't been flawless. I've had to repair both of them once. The washer had a pump go out so the clothes stayed soaked. The dryer had one of the rollers wear out. Both easy fixes under $50 following youtube videos. But we also have models before "smart" appliances were really becoming common. I'm still impressed by the washing machine. It gets cloths to "damp" before it's done. Far better than any other washing machine I've used before and cuts down on the work the dryer is doing.

I have an LG combined washer/dryer (I've used the drying less than 10 times in 3 years). I picked it because it wasn't too deep, so it could fit nicely in my small bathroom. I'm happy with how it cleans, but sometimes it will have an issue where it won't start spinning fast, because it has some sensor that detects that the unit shakes too much. It actually does shake, but it seems to have a hard time spreading the clothes so that it doesn't. Sometimes it will waste a good hour trying to start spinning. Not sure if it's somehow actually broken (like a busted damper or whatever), but this issue seems to have increased in frequency. And it does it both when there aren't many clothes and when it's rather full.

Huh, two houses back I had a really fucking POS dryer that I got expert at replacing the "Dryer Thermal Fuse" (pick your own youtube video walkthrough) and my foggy memory says in my ear that it was an LG dryer. So I'm thinking, this commenter malfist, doesn't know what he is talking about and I'll go look in my notes.org and... NOPE! It was a Samsung DV42H5000EW/A3 model!

Sorry malfist for thinking bad thoughts. I've redirected all that negative energy back to its rightful owner: Samsung.

The washer next to that dryer was an LG, and in my notes I never touched it.

Always good to reattach to reality.

Ah, I see that the washer/dryer pair we bought new 4 years ago and hauled across the country are LG ThinQs. Very happy with them. Apparently can be "smart" but I shut that down.


There's other reasons to avoid LG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME

I wonder if it's a regional difference. Here in the UK I have their fridge and dryer - both came with 5 year warranty. My inlaws have their fridge in Poland, that came with a 10 year warranty on the compressor. They've had it now for 8 years and it's been working fine. Obviously it's anecdotes, but if a company offers 10 years warranty for something I tend to see that as a strong signal it's going to be at least somewhat reliable.

I think it may depend on the LG appliance. Their washers and dryers are generally rated pretty well and last a long time (personal experience). They are generally pretty self-repairable and parts aren't obscene (again, personal experience).

That said, next go around, I'm buying a top loader Speed Queen Commercial washer and dryer. The ones with analog knobs.

But yeah, I'd never buy a Samsung appliance and that seems to be universal advice among the clued.


My Speed Queens with buttons/LED have been good for ~10 years now, only rare minor problems and none with the "electronics".

I'd never buy one of their TVs or fridges (given the whole shoving ads into everything, probably nothing of theirs with a screen), but we did have a great experience with one of their washer and dryers. The dryer lasted us seven years, and we replaced the washer at the same time though it still worked. It's lifetime included our child's cloth diapers phase, they saw some heavy use.

They were plain dumb devices.


My Samsung laser printer is pretty good. Was cheap, works since purchase a decade or so back, doesn't try to extort you. Unfortunately HP bought Samsung printers after and discontinued the extortion free ones.

Is this lack of quality a US thing?

Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.

I never heard anybody complaining about Samsung.


Could be more features lead to more problems. Ice makers are highly desirable and often problematic.

Could be that US runs on 120vac and that means a lot of different parts.

Could be the US market gets more advanced compressors and what not to meet energy efficiency requirements (and maybe reduced noise) and Kazakhstan gets a simpler refrigerator that just keeps working.


Any product from almost any manufacturer has built-in obsolescence - unless you go mid-high end, like Bosch etc.

Sammy/LG/GE business models aren't built on services but volume. If you buy a third party warranty service, that solves the issue somewhat, but they churn out so many models that parts become scarce.

You just got lucky or your models are from a different era. I don't want to drop money on Bosch, so I buy the cheapest ones and just replace them when needed.


As a counterpoint, my Samsung fridge has survived for 15 years, which is significantly longer than my mom's Maytag and Whirlpool fridges. Those two brands guarantee parts availability for decades...but that's because you'll need to fix them constantly.

I once asked an appliance repairman which refrigerator brand to buy, to which he responded:

"If I had a choice between a Samsung and an LG, I'd pick a Yeti cooler!"


> If you open this box you agree to the EULA

That's especially ridiculous if you consider that many customers will never see the box if they have someone else install it.


From what people say, if you want french door fridges, Bosch and Fisher Paykel are the ones to go for.

I’ve had 3 LG french door fridges for 5 to 10 years and none have had any issues, and they cost half or a third as much as Bosch and Fisher Paykel.

I feel like I save a lot more money just buying whatever decent rated LG stuff on Costco and replacing it whenever it breaks (hasn’t happened yet).


damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess

Samsung has been around for a while now. I wouldn't be surprised if they finally decided to fix their issues and new ones work fine. However I still won't be allowing them in my house for a few decades at least to be sure. Partially because I was burned in the past.

Since you already have them I wish you luck. Maybe they now last.


There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:

A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.


I always joke with people that I hate software in anything but a traditional computers _because_ I'm a software engineer. I want the car with the fewest smart features, a normal door bell, a non-smart washing machine.

Software sucks a lot of the time and it often gets in the way, at least the way it's deployed over the last decade. Very few things in my home should connect to the internet. My phone and computers. Begrudgingly my TV now.

Also, those things that connect to the internet but don't let you have control? They get EOL'd, despite having paid a premium for them. I've never had a stove from this century and they all work fine, because why the hell wouldn't they?


I've become oversensitive to UI problems and bugs.

I get triggered when watching my family or friends struggle with egregiously poor design.

I have avoidance techniques, so I can avoid facing the most anger inducing software.

I just feel lucky I'm not a graphic designer or architect or writer. How does someone with good taste even survive facing the outside world?


I did UX for over 20 years, and the profession is now cooked. Nobody cares about quality anymore. I'm angry and bitter.

If you have any avoidance techniques that are easy to articulate, please share them.


Quitting work years ago helped, even though I still enjoyed software development. I had intended to instead work on my own investments, but I stopped that after I figured out money is a joyless and meaningless motivator.

Mostly just saying no to helping anyone with computer problems. Fortunately changed from Windows 7 to Linux, so I can be mostly honest when I tell people I don't understand their laptop problems.

Said no to helping family with with any printer issues after ~2005. I often print stuff, but I use the printer at my local library or printshop.

I still occasionally dabble, but only for those people I dearly love. I'm still very good at tech support, I just don't do it.

I've got my tech frustration level down to about the background radiation level (as politics or taxes).


> I just feel lucky I'm not a graphic designer

"If you really hate someone, teach them to recognize bad kerning."

https://xkcd.com/1015/


If you really hate someone: mention small randomly intermittent noises. Or other minor niggles that you never would have noticed unless the niggles were pointed out to you.

If you want to be nice to yourself, don't train yourself to notice small annoying common problems.



What was your process to find the oldest reference?

Google search.

P.S. only the oldest that I can track down.


Real tech people don't own printers.

(to ruin an otherwise good joke)


I'd go with an ancient boat anchor LaserJet but, otherwise, yep.

if it makes an unexpected noise, to be precise

>I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.

Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle, delayed start, etc functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and using the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_hmwBBPnc&t=4m21s


Aside: I heard that "eco mode" is typically not actually the most energy efficient mode on most washing machines. Apparently it's a standard mode they have to add so that energy efficiency can be measured across machines, but that means it can't be optimised.

You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.

(YMMV, look things up for your specific model)


That's not true in the EU anyway.

Under EU Commission Regulation (EU) 2019/2023, washing machines sold in the European Union must include a mandatory standardized program called "Eco 40-60".

The whole point is to enforce strict legal limits on maximum water and electricity consumption per cycle based on the machine's rated capacity. This it the reason they tend to run for hours - it uses less water and energy than a standard cotton cycle by having longer soak times and using less electricity to heat the water.

In 1995 it took 94 litres of water and 350 kWh/a for a cycle in the average EU washing machine. These measures, amongst others, reduced that to 36 l/cycle and 96 kWh/a in 2020 and an expected 30 l/cycle by 2030.

https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/...

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE...


Do you happen to know when this regulation came into effect? I bought a Siemens (same thing as Bosch, only with a different badge and colors) in 2023 and it only has a single ECO cycle that takes like four and a half hours. There's no other ECO cycle in the app, either.

That cycle is available via a button on the front panel and is actually the one that came selected by default. I can program it from the front panel, too. I think the app allows loading some more "special" cycles, but I never understood what those were good for.

All the functions of the washer are configurable through the front panel (water hardness, telling it it's connected to the hot water tap rather than the cold, how much rinse aid to use, etc).



The irony being that Eco loads are necessarily smaller, for soaking and to draw less current through the motor, so to do the same amount of clothes as one 'planet killer' wash you need to do at least two 'Eco' cycles.

TLDR: there aren't really any shortcuts to getting dirt out of clothes.


Using durable clothes for as long as they... endure. Definitely not flash fashion.

Since I live in a poor country, I am allowed to use cotton shirts until too much skin shows (hyperbole, I only allow one small hole) Then, it becomes a rag or a mop 100% of the time.

Having few stains in an worn bought-new shirt is a good indicator of not being rich and still having class.

Eco friendly means unfashionable most of the time. Smaller cars, or even public transport, god forbid.


Quarch (they make awesome power analysis/power injection equipment) did an investigation in to their office dishwasher's "Eco mode" a couple years ago. It was interesting: https://quarch.com/news/my-dishwashers-eco-mode-did-not-save...

The quick conclusion? "Quick Wash" uses less energy and water than "Eco Wash". "Intensive Wash" uses more energy than both.


It's one of those "optimize for X/Y/Z, pick two". The eco mode is usually the best for water usage, but it might use more energy. The fast modes might use more water but less energy. It's hard to do both and still get good results.


Countries with heavy investment in wind and solar are seeing periods of free or negative cost electricity. Ideally, batteries would soak this up for use during peak hours, but smart appliances can be a great way to take advantage. It's a shame that these companies cannot be trusted with our data!

It's true with basically all technology these days. We have a lot of cool and useful technology, but every company who will sell it to you has designed it so that the device you paid for is also being used by them to screw you over.

Could do all that with dumb timers. Funny thing is, the optimal way to run my A/C is simply a consistent temperature 24/7, so my dumb old thermostat is set to that (but it also has a timer if I want).

Solar and wind surpluses are somewhat predictable, but not really something you can capture with a dumb timer.

https://theconversation.com/why-some-countries-give-away-fre...


A lot of devices have optional "smart" functionality. I don't think that's nearly as bad as devices actively connected to the internet.

Really hard to tell them apart from marketing blurbs, though.

I'm sure my unconnected LG oled is gossiping about me to my neighbours connected LG fridge.

I'm skeptical of Samsung after having two LCD monitors dies at approximately the same usage hours. I think they were victims of the 2000s capacitor plague.

My house came with Samsung front load washer and drier. They're not wonderful but they're still running for the 6 years I've lived here. I had to replace the drier drum after the rollers deteriorated and gouged out holes in the drum. Then I had to replace the rollers again after a year because I bought cheap rollers :(


Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).

> Please scan your butthole twice to open the fridge and retrieve the beer.

make sure to enema yourself with a verification bag to continue

Yeah, my hot water heater has an app. I'm not happy about this.

"Never buy hardware that requires and app to use" has been my rule for a long time and I've never once regretted it. If the need for an app wasn't disclosed before purchase the item gets promptly returned.

What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)

The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.”

He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.”

“I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.”

In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.

“You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug.

From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door.

“I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out.

Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.


How quaint, a paper contract that needed an actual written signature.

I have a dishwasher that turned out to have an app. I quite like it, but I am going to try and isolate it and only get it integrated into Home Assistant.

Honestly baffled by this. You load the dishwasher and then go sit down on your phone, open an app, and turn it on? And that will be preferable to clicking start as you close the door?

No, I don't turn it on with the app, and it wouldn't be preferable to do that.

I'm happy to tell you why I like it to save you guessing again: I like knowing when the wash is done via a notification, and also to get status updates when things like salt are low.


For the dishwasher, I don't have such a need. But for the washing machine, I find it helpful to get a notification when it's done. I usually close the bathroom door while it runs, so I don't hear when it's done and will often forget about it.

Dishes can sit in the dishwasher after it's done for however long it takes me to remember to unload them, but leaving damp clothes in a closed box is something I'd rather avoid.


Personally I just set a timer. Having a wifi connection to have your appliance use an api to ping your app which has to be signed in introduces quite a lot of failure modes.

We bought a house, and I was relieved that nothing in it was smart, especially the thermostat.

It is sad, and as one of the several former BeOS employees who went to Apple to add our experience to OSX, I can say that most of us have moved on. This isn't to say that others can't do what we did; they certainly should be able to. The OSX team back then was much smaller and we all had a maniacal attention to detail. One reason is that we were micromanaged by Steve J. and did lengthy weekly reviews with him and he was direct and brutal. He wasn't always right, but he did have the final say. This is all gone and even though Steve Lemay (now head of UX) was there during this time, he was also present during the overall rot of the user experience.


Hi Pavel. I remember your work on Eddie and Tracker and Queries. Do you still follow the development of Haiku (even if infrequently)?


/meta let me just say how cool it is to cool it is to make a comment on HN and have responses from folks who worked on legendary teams. Thanks for your work on BeOS.


Are you the man who helped work on the new Apple file system / spotlight after working on BeOS' filesystem? If so, thanks!


Dominic Giampaolo may be who you’re thinking of. He’s shown up on HN before, IIRC.


Cool.

Now that we are living in The Future, I am dumbfounded how e.g. dynamically populated lists change their content reliably to something I did not want, during the phase of interaction where my finger is descending onto the target. Click! Not what I want.

Feels like a lost art which will be "discovered" again in the next 15 years.


This would be so exciting. The implementation language would be less of a concern, but it worth wondering about... Would you use Rust, Racket, Lisp, Clojure, etc? I had a lot of fun teaching adults to program using DrRacket and didn't focus on the language as much as the concepts you mentioned above. They ended up being easily able to move to Javascript, Swift, and others at the end of the course.


K.W.Jeter was writing Blade Runner 2 in the office next to our small video game company. We were working on the entirely forgettable Dark Fiber title which was only published in Japan for the NEC PC-98.

https://archive.org/details/DarkFiberWindowsMac/(WIN+MAC)%20...

We talked a lot but I resisted asking him to help with the plot of the game. I probably should have!


"It takes five years to become an overnight success" I heard a variation of this from a VC who invested in my startup in the 8Os. I had to use it on him when we went back to the well a few times for more funding.


I don’t understand what you mean by “we don’t know”? Are you saying tech entrepreneurs don’t know education? I agree with that. Or are you saying we don’t know what problem to solve?


My interpretation of “we don’t know” is that the space of possible instruction methods is huge, and we don’t know what works best. It is easy to think of it as a kind of optimization problem, but that line of thinking quickly runs into a bunch of practical obstacles: different people learn differently, studies with good experimental design take time and resources so it is slow to iterate, and good teaching seems to require deep insights into student motivations and incentives, aspects of teaching that are hard to quantify. We also don’t have great ways to measure outcomes; grades are weakly predictive of future success.

The best teachers seem to combine deep thinking about how to teach with intuition and charisma. The ingredients are hard to replicate.

I do think that this is a nut that we will eventually crack, but it is proving to be a very tough nut.


It's also quite possible that the method that works best for one person is completely horrible for another person, but that's just me guessing


I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and hope for the best.

My wife has been a high school math teacher for 25 years and has seen waves of tech luminaries give their visions of how tech will radically improve education and learning. She can’t point to any startup that has had a major impact in improving outcomes. I wish I could point her to something that really will have an impact in, or even out, of the classroom for her students.


That's not unique to tech startups. Almost nothing in terms of explicit methodology has any effect on education outcomes. The literature on education research is of abysmal quality too.


That is rough. I assume this is a web application?

I went through a previous thought experiment about what would happen when we moved a paid up front feature behind a subscription. This was the outcome I came to. Unless the user bought and installed a physical app, on the desktop, outside of an app store, they were going to get the rug pulled out from under them.


No, its the stronglifts app. But I switched to hevy and I'm happy with it. But I did paper for a while and liked it until I missed mu graphs


Ugh, that happened to me too. But instead of researching other apps and waiting for them to decide to go premium too, I built my own workout app. Been using it for a couple months now and it's working great, but the hassle of publishing it to the app store means that it will only ever be a solution for me and I can't share it with anyone.


Have you considered making it into a PWA?

I've always thought of cloning the old Zero fasting app into one, when I have a bit more time to point my Claude at building something else.


I actually started with it as a PWA, but ended up rewriting it in react-native. I wanted a couple features (heart rate monitor, lock screen integration) that afaik don't work with PWAs.


That is terrible and I am glad someone broke ranks to inform you of the risk.

My wife had a very agressive triple-hit lymphoma and CAR-T was eventually suggested. Fortunately, the medical team was very honest about how hard it impacts your body, with very likely chance of death. My wife decided to do it, and it almost killed her. The team actually had to "shut down" the process, so she didn't benefit completely from the treatment. The suffering was pretty immense as well. She died a few months later regardless.

We are (were) both engineers and we did wonder how many might get streamrolled by the whole medical process, where you do get this odd combination of extreme indifference and optimistic exuberance.


Sorry for your loss, I feel your pain. Your wife was very brave to give it a shot and take the fight to the limit, and you should remember her courage and honor her memory and keep fighting till the end regardless of what hardships you encounter in life.

The treatment actually killed my dad. I may be wrong but it appears with the treatment there was a 30% chance of some recovery, 40% chance that it would at least stop the cancer growth, 30% chance that it had no impact. I guess you have to take that chance when you have no other option. I don't blame the hospital (which was terrible) or the treatment, it was the last card left. And our loved ones end up in the 30% statistic and maybe as another anecdote for the risks section, but we know what we they went through and we won't forget.

It was tough because my dad was suffering, but he still was active and had at least a few months left without the treatment and I know that at that point in his battle he did this treatment to keep fighting for us rather than for him, even though it was he who had to suffer through it. So I am going to honor his memory and keep fighting until the end as well.


Thank you both for sharing.


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