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you... don't read hackernews much I take it? This is like 10% of all submissions lately, lol.

In fact I do live outside HN.

when something is that cheap, just remember, you're giving something valuable to the people selling you that thing

Just an unrelated PSA that Anthropic trains on your Claude code sessions unless you disable it:

https://www.anthropic.com/news/updates-to-our-consumer-terms


I mean, same goes for OpenAI. Why point out only Anthropic?

For OpenAI they also have a separate opt-out for stopping training on your codex environment:

"Codex has a separate Include environments setting in Codex settings that controls whether additional context from your Codex environments can be used to train OpenAI models. Changing your ChatGPT setting or opting out through the Privacy Portal does not change that setting." https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7730893-data-controls-in...


The point is that the contrapositive to GP’s statement does not hold. In other words, if the AI is cheap they’re training on your data might be true, but if the AI is expensive it does not imply they are not training on your data.

Anthropic has the most expensive models and train on your data by default. The fact that OpenAI also does shows that the cost of the AI doesn’t seem to be a deciding factor.


I agree in principle, but the example doesn't hold. Anthropic is only more expensive over API, and they don't train on API usage by default.

https://privacy.claude.com/en/articles/7996868-is-my-data-us...

I've found the max 200 plans to be roughly equivalent, with Claude giving slightly more usage recently, especially after the OpenAI usage slash and upsell to the 500 plan


nonono when Anthropic does it, it's a fair business practice, when Chinese companies do it, it's evil. See also "distillation"

I think there's a fair argument here for the other way.

No [reasonable] person expects a free game to not sell microtransactions or ads or something, but a paid game doing that would garner some anger or squints.


No, it's open source and is actually cheap to run, while performing the same, which is why it is being run and provided by 31 different providers for Openrouter.

Not necessarily, you can buy low priced Deepseek inference also from many services that guarantee ZDR and GDPR compliance. My personal rule is: Never buy inference from those who also train models, because they have an inherent incentive to abuse your data to train their models.

Also because the independent services won't have incentive to resell your data. (to have another income and therefore make their inference cost lower, enabling them to gain over competition)

once they go bankrupt or do exit, what do people think will happen to data that has real value to it? Also why trust some random mid level company

Given its open weight you can actually calculate the cost of running it and see if that makes sense to you or not. There is a whole ecosystem of providers serving deepseek models at the same low price, hosted in the US or the EU, with zero data retention terms.

Or, when something is that cheap, it's going to take multiple tries to get it right anyway, so you might as well build that into the cost.

If it's not cheap you might be doing the same thing ...

why does the pareto cost per task chart not have 6.1 sol?

The big players tend to leave out each other's very absolute latest models too. There's a nice ambiguity there: was it genuinely too new to be included when they made this? That ambiguity can do a lot of work.

I agree with you and disagree with the OP in similar ways.

I work on my own "agentically-engineered" projects and the pursuit of certain ideas for what you're calling intrinsic motivation, and I don't particularly care if others find it interesting or even find it at all or not, because the ideas themselves are cool to me.

It's kind of like I can suddenly tinker at 2,000% efficiency and share what I'm doing, _and if someone else finds it interesting, that's cool too_


Isn’t the point you’re making what OP is saying - that there are of course some humans who have deep intrinsic motivation, and they’ll continue to do what they do, but most humans aren’t wired this way, and for that, society will collapse?


Worse, that this "intrinsic" motivation was developed within an existing intellectual community -- so where does the next generation acquire it?

The community is reqiured for both intrinsic and extrinsic motivators, just over different time horizons.


Yes


This is news to me, do you have a link to docs for the configuration option?


It's entirely possible that in their testing of newer models, the whole problem is that even if it's doing better in benchmarks, maybe it's insufferable to work with, thus they're not releasing it.


go ask 100 random people across the world and I bet less than 20 will know both those company names.


I'd go with fewer than 5.


I'm confused, isn't a self-hosted cloud something like openstack or kubernetes?


Like the real ones, digital clouds can take many shapes.

Sometimes it means "rented virtual resources", sometimes it means "stack of intertwined services", sometimes it means "SaaS", sometimes it means "alternatives to SaaS"...

Here it seems to be the latter.


what a cool answer


It's also very convenient to not have to remember a bunch of extra combos or perform the gymnastics to press them, especially if you need other modifiers too like shift+pgup, shift+ctrl+pageup, etc


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