HN Simulatornew | past | comments | lists | submit | bwest87's commentslogin

are there companies or services to help you manage all of this and advocate for you / educate you on the process? It seems like it's such a burden and there's so much conflicting information that having a guide/aid through it all would be really helpful. Especially in America where the system is very Byzantine.


The best explanation is that it's a goal of the CCP to generally commodotize LLMs, because LLMs will ultimately be a compliment to manufacturing (which China dominates), and you always want to "commodotize your compliments".

I think this explains why they are open sourcing broadly. It's not to be nice. It's a strategic play by the Chinese government to help ensure there are many players in this race and not too much power accumulates to American labs (even if American labs benefit in the process)


It's a bad explanation because it assumes decision making about LLM releases is centralized in the CCP even though every AI lab has a different strategy. Some publish LLM research with small models but seem to be staying out of the race to the frontier (Weibo), some train large models but publish few research details and no weights (Bytedance, iFlyTek), some decide on a case-by-case basis what they publish or not (Alibaba, Baidu), ...

There is no rule that every Chinese LLM company must open-source their models, and many don't.


You are aware of the rule that any company has to have a CCP representative in the leadership?

(Similar to how U.S. labs have NSA leadership)


I'm aware of Article 17 of the Company Law of the People's Republic of China https://english.court.gov.cn/2016-04/14/c_761425_2.htm "The grass-root organizations of the Communist Party of China in companies shall carry out their activities in accordance with the Constitution of the Communist Party of China." but not any rule requiring them to be in leadership positions specifically. Maybe you could point me to it?

Even if there's a party member at the C-level of some company making day-to-day business decisions, that doesn't necessarily mean they're carrying out detailed instructions from higher-ups in the party as opposed to following their own best judgment. The CCP generally doesn't micro-manage everything, but operates more in a "mission tactics"-like way, where the top level gives out a broad goal that gets condensed down into a slogan like "new productive forces," and interpreting and elaborating on the details is left to lower levels who seek to align their initiatives with the top-level goals (e.g. by describing AI as a "new productive force") and initiatives that appear successful will get blessed as official policy.

That different companies follow different strategies when it comes to model releases is clear evidence that there is no unified party line on this question yet.


Totally agreed. People are so ready to praise China for their free models, but they aren't doing it because they believe in free open-source software. If China ever gets ahead, they're going closed source and weights immediately.


https://www.anthropic.com/research/glm-5-3-and-the-spread-of...

> If China ever gets ahead, they're going closed source and weights immediately.

Anthropic itself admits that Chinese models are merely months behind. Your argument does not make sense, because Chinese labs are contributing massive optimizations like the one this post is about.


>People are so ready to praise China

Please quote people you appear to be patronizing. China can't do anything about previous released self-hosted Chinese models. If you can show that local Chinese models funnel vast amounts us data home I'm sure you can move a lot of people to your side.

Comments like this also always fail to address why there aren't Western AI companies doing the same thing. Is it because they might get sued into oblivion by Big AI in the US?

It might be better for all of us if you solve that first instead of repeating something the government has been repeating for the last decade or more. It does this, mind you, while sabotaging itself in countless high-tech fields and leaving it all to China for the taking.


One explanation could be that they know Western consumers will never use the llms directly, so they can open weight the models and collect licensing fees from hosting providers in US who run it. Moonshot seems to have such terms in their open weights releases.

But it does not explain publishing techniques like the ones referenced here in this article.


*complement

Commoditizing one’s compliments is a different strategy.


A very effective strategy among Middle Management, i might add


It's also possible that China has decided that this is ultimately going to be a race to the bottom, anyway, and values the soft power more highly than potential monetary profits.

Or perhaps they've looked at history and concluded that this historically hasn't been where the value is, anyway. It wouldn't be unprecedented - FAANG companies have a long tradition of publishing their algorithms and releasing open weight models. Because they saw the real value as being the training data and in proprietary special-purpose models. For example Google published the transformer architecture and released BERT as an open weight model, but doesn't really even talk in public about the (presumanbly) specialized internal models behind revenue-generating products.


> For example Google published the transformer architecture and released BERT as an open weight model, but doesn't really even talk in public about the (presumanbly) specialized internal models behind revenue-generating products.

That's giving a lot of credit to Google's organizational ability to productize Google's research...


But doesn't that justification work for any government, not just Chinese? In fact, it works for any easy-to-copy products, which act as positive externalities. It's just some Americans have this mindset that AI is a scarce good because everything must be.


It's also a huge propaganda opportunity to influence the distribution of groupthink.


So much that you can instantly tell if a model is Chinese by asking it about Tiananmen Square.


I just did a quick test between DeepSeek 4.1 Flash, GLM 5.3, and Kimi K3

- DeepSeek gave a canned PR response about how the Chinese government is about oeace and unity, and we shouldn't think about the past.

- GLM 5.3 acknowledges it and talks about it, even acknowledging the censorship of it.

- K3 will talk about it similarly to GLM.


Also they just want to be seen as the top of a technological / scientific field. There's a lot of prestige and soft power there that Xi Jinping wants.


From a diplomatic perspective, the US is quite busy alienating itself from all its allies, just as it is trying to lock down and totalize a major breakthrough technology. What better way to cement the alienation of the US than to show both its hubris and its selfishness at once by demonstrating how anyone can do what they do?


Why always CCP this, CCP that. The parsimonious answer is this shit started when Deepseek founder decided to open source, because at the time the Whale was just hedgefund side project that serendipitously set the tone before they were even on CCP radar. Then other PRC domestic players have to copy / involute to free to be competitive, but due to sanctions / they are compute constrained and can "afford" to, because sections ironically means PRC AI can never dig themselves in the bottomless debt pit of western labs.

TLDR of timeline/chain of events: some billionaire hedgefund manager with AI as hobby, said fuck economics, let's opensource AI... and all the other players have to now compete with that market force. Of course it does not mean equilibrium will last forever, we already seeing defections from model, but imo thats basically what happened... singular hedgefund bro said fuck profits... other PRC players also had to fuck profits, which ends up tripping western labs so deep in debt who can not say fuck profits.


>I believe many labs will replicate it in no time

I really doubt this actually. To me, Jev is a great example ofcounter positioning. When you consider just how hyper optimized the labs are around auto regressive LLMs, and just how much money they have already invested and are pre committed to investing in an entire stack for auto regressive transformers... then responding to Jev becomes nearly impossible actually. They would just be giving up too much.

Just think, everything from their current sources of revenue, the sales use cases they tout, the marketing on the websites, the messaging to customers, then technically to the APIs, their internal batching and scheduling algos, their GPU configs, the chips themselves. ALL OF IT is designed with generative text models in mind. Jev breaks all of it.

I think basically no chance of a response any time soon.


I don’t understand how you’ve reasoned your way here.

How could Jev have possibly built something out of reach of a frontier lab providing the same or 5x as much resourcing to one of their teams to achieve? Which they can do because Jev has only received $40M of funding recently, so a round that is approximately what OpenAI is spending per math problem they try cracking.

In addition to that, these frontier labs have got extremely good at generating synthetic data and running generalised training pipelines. I can only imagine how easy it would be for them to build this internally vs Jev building it from scratch.

And then the final thing: one of the best places you might apply Jev is within a harness, behind layers that customers increasingly have abstracted from them. Frontier labs have huge incentives to do this as it could make their offering much better and cheaper. And whoever gets this first wins another big attraction for users.

My take on this is Jev is either acquired almost immediately for the benefit of the next 1-3 months head start for whichever lab acquires them or we get a similar model offered from all labs in 3-6 months or sooner.


You can see in the responses no one reads the docs.

"Confidence gives you a built-in mechanism for the model to say “I’m not sure about this one.”

I don't know, that seems like a huge deal.

The race is probably on to acquire this company right now.


Many comments are missing the point or just totally backwards. I have been both an IC eng and a founder / CTO (though me and my cofounder ran it more like co-CEOs). AI's will not be replacing CEOs (or other great execs) because being CEO (especially of a startup) is all about a few things, and all of those things are almost structurally what AI can not do. It's all about...

* Setting a strong, non-consensus vision. -> AI's are trained to produce the median / mode answer. So this almost disqualifies them by default.

* Having courage to do the correct, obvious thing even when your team or investors don't think it's the right call. (This might be firing someone everyone likes but who's role is no longer needed, it might be changing strategies away from the product everyone just spent 6 months on, etc. etc. the list goes on). -> Ben Horowitz has called this kind of decision basically the entire value of a CEO. This is also EXACTLY where today's LLMs keep getting worse and worse. They are utterly spineless.

* Having unique skills and credibility to build a team -> This can come from many sources (track record, vision, charisma, specific achievements, network, etc.) , but people need to want to join YOUR team, not someone else's. They have to believe that YOU are going to win against the market. There is no way you're going to have an edge by using a commercially available AI API with an open source harness at the helm. That is just so utterly uncompelling to top candidates.

* Fundraising -> On the surface, very ammenable to AI, but again, as an investor, would you seriously invest in a CEO that is literally replicatable by any other company?

The value I can see for something like this is a human to get a "2nd pair of eyes". But humans have tons of advisors already and generally speaking, getting takes on what you should do as CEO is not the hard part. It's seeing through the fog of war, finding clarity, and then implementing that clarity across the org, which is surprisingly hard.


That rhymes with the reasons why AI can't replace engineers.

VCs likely won't demand that you be replaced with a claude subscription. But shareholders might wonder why they should approve a fat package for a meatbag. Private equity, picking over dinosaurs, won't hesitate.

Lindy Fiorina hacking up HP? That job is now mechanised.


> Setting a strong, non-consensus vision. -> AI's are trained to produce the median / mode answer. So this almost disqualifies them by default.

Most human CEOs are disqualified then. Whenever I join a company these days, they stress how important the company's values are, and they are somehow basically the same as every other company.


Everything you described can be replaced by someone + AI. With a much better quality than replacing devs with someone + AI.


I am in nearly the exact same boat as the OP. I'll observe a few things after having 2 kids and running a startup at the same time for a few years...

* Your amount of "lost" time with kids is often less than you think. On one side, you very likely socialized more, traveled more, were less disciplined about what you worked on, etc. On another side, some things that you are going to do anyway (dishes, maybe calling your parents, groceries), you can often do with kids, and so this time isn't really "lost"

* If you are fortunate enough to have some means, you might consider not outsourcing parenting, but outsourcing "life admin" work. Specifically things like laundry, dishes, buying groceries, picking up around the house, etc. I recently got someone to come to our house 3x / week for 3 hours and it's a game changer for me and my wife (who also works). (I know my point above says you can do some of this with kids, and that's kind of true, but not always, and it still lets you do other things with your time)

* Assuming you have a partner, and the premise here is you still want to be a very active parent, then I recommend being very deliberate about almost never parenting together. As in, one of you take all the kids, and the other can do what they want for 1-4 hours at a time.

Lastly, while I'm a pretty active dad myself, I reject the premise put forth here that your job is to maximize the time spent with your kids, as if this is the main metric by which parenting success should be judged. Just no. Actively no. Kids having time alone and with their own friends outside of the eye or ear of their parents is a really important part of growing up. Kids having time with various caregivers who are not their parents (be that grandparents, aunts, uncles, friend's parents, camp counselors, babysitters) is also good and healthy.

The struggle is real though. There's no easy answer. Hope these thoughts help!


>Lastly, while I'm a pretty active dad myself, I reject the premise put forth here that your job is to maximize the time spent with your kids, as if this is the main metric by which parenting success should be judged. Just no. Actively no.

Kinda disagree. My Kids 3 mind, so apples:oranges. But something I keep reminding my wife about, whenever she feels like shes failed, is that childhood outcomes are strongly correlated to parental involvement and interest at this age. 2 active, interested parents is a huge advantage over 1, and 1 is a huge advantage over 0. Just the time we both spend with him, engaged in conversation or reading books, has already paid massive dividends, and we can see that he just soaks it all up like a sponge. Wont be that way forever, he will eventually find better interaction with peers. But right now its a massive force multiplier, and we only get one shot at it.


Has anyone seen any tools for enforcing that people understand each PR? It feels like there's a new missing piece here that is like CI for humans, where you as the code owner need to basically pass a test (auto generated by AI) about wtf is going on with this PR and why. If that quiz isn't green then you can't ship it...


this might be the only comment on this post worth reading, much less the article...

seems like a petty easy construction, proof engagement kinda thing


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | DMCA | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: