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Atlassian products (Jira Server) are no longer supported, and their more Enterprise offering dies in 2029, so everything is ending up in their cloud now yeah.

We've just moved from on-prem (protected by MTLS) to on-cloud because of this. I now know why everyone hates jira. The cloud version is so much worse

If you're a Microsoft shop, you can put just about anything behind Microsoft Entra Application Proxy (and also support SSO).

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/entra/identity/app-proxy/o...


Or I can (and do) use something good. That doesn't change the fact atlasian no longer support on prem jira.

I know a lot of companies vibe-coding alternatives. I'm not an expert but it's perhaps even illegal for most European companies to migrate any customer data to Atlassian servers.

This is something I keep struggling with.

If someone wants to vibe code an alternative to a SaaS tool, my gut feeling is "no, this is bad and it will blow up" as vibe-coded projects tend to do.

But then the alternative is often paying $X million per year for licenses to a half-assed program that hasn't had a UI update since 2005.

I just don't have a good argument on why they shouldn't when the outcome will be just as dogshit, only cheaper and flashier.


They just started updating the UI and I am pissed off.

I don’t want them to change UI. I have plenty of work to do and have plenty of other tools that I use daily.

I have my workflows, I am swamped with work and now I have to change my workflows because someone changed options in UI where ones that O used are not there anymore.


I think there's ways to have a solid app by giving ai precise instruction about the architecture it has to follow. Especially by configuring read-only agent for security and quality and builder agents for everything else. It isn't perfect and I wouldn't do critical apps for a company with it but it's solid enough to replace a SaaS tool in my opinion. I think the real subject is wether this vibe-coder knows he'll have to maintain his app...

I'd pay embarrassing amounts of money for applications which do not get biweekly UI overhauls.

I'm still using the 2024 version of JetBrains IDEs because the UI hadn't changed in over ten years. I quit paying JetBrains when they ripped out the perfectly functional UI and replaced it with a VSCode reskin.

Please, for the love of god, give me software with a consistent UI.


Atlassian migrated EU data to EU based servers. I still had to click approve but they did that for me.

Atlassian is a US-parented company and this means that CLOUD act can affect it. Even this only can make it unsuitable. Then there are questions to data-in-transit. Also nothing is legally tested. Vibe-coding an alternative is much safer if you have sensitive customer data (even simple support tickets).

Not that this matters in terms of the CLOUD Act, but it's actually an Australian company based in Sydney.

As far as I know the ultimate (as in, when you follow the chain) holding company is from Delaware.

Yep.

Going with this idea further basically all data goes via Microsoft one way or another.

The location of the servers matters only if you're trying to prevent physical access, for anything else it's completely irrelevant

Can you give more information on "illegal for most European companies" part? Asking for a EU company using Jira :)

This person is just posting absolutely baseless claims, as if Atlassian, a company that basically exists purely on the back of B2B SaaS sales, has not considered EU data residency requirements in their core product offering: https://www.atlassian.com/software/data-residency

FWIW nearly every SaaS or IaaS is making bold claims about supporting data sovereignty, but unless it has been challenged in court I wouldn’t put much stock into it.

The fact that Jira/Confluence are being processed by their LLMs puts them in direct legal conflict with several statutes in the EU, its a matter of time for them to get hit by this and I’m betting that they think the fine will be lower than the revenue they acquire for doing it- and they’re hoping they don’t get hit at all.

This seems to be the common case for a lot of the non-EU tech companies, and it seems to be working.

Oracle is currently the market leader in “sovereign” compute for EU governments for example, as ironic as that is.


> This person is just posting absolutely baseless claims

You don't need to be so hostile. I know about the EU requirements but many EU companies have sensitive data on hosted JIRA / Confluence that simply cannot be in the possession of a non-European company. I know because I'm working for one. I cannot even remote-work from outside Europe. Some stuff cannot even leave the VPN. There's also the CLOUD act.


Yeah I thought Jira at least was all built on AWS these days. I've never set up a Jira Cloud instance but I'd be surprised if you don't chose where your data lives.

In short gdpr compliant means you can configure it but it must not be compliant by default and also there is no guarantee.

They are constantly changing their software and settings. More than once they believed that something is legal but can be risky for the atlassian customer.

For example training AI on metadata which they believe are anonymized but are maybe not enough changed.

Training data or metadata permisson can not be configured on all subscriptions. But as a data processor they must follow the contract otherwise they become data controller.

Also there are risks associated with privacy data framework, cloud act etc. to be non compliant just by data transfers to other countries.


This is how SaaS dies, vibe-coded to death.

I’m doing my part!


> my now former CPA

Assume yes, fired.


There are backports already.

If your PHP application accesses a database, you've got exfiltration, it doesn't matter in this case. Unless your PHP application is just echoing non sensitive data (i.e. rendering md files)...

perhaps, or you could not give your application access to user data without authentication. there are strategies.

I love the "affects PHP... 6" given we never had an official 6 release haha.

Yeah.. their text (unedited).. Maybe they meant 5.6? Only 8.x is "supported" currently, though. I wonder how 3&4 avoided it :)

> I wonder how 3&4 avoided it :)

Probably the same way log4j 1.x avoided log4shell: the vulnerable code was introduced on a later release.


A: I'm writing a post, what versions

B: "5.6, 7, 8“

A: fixes a "typo" ok so "5, 6, 7, 8"


It's a RCE bug, it does not matter if you disable php functions. It's not arbitrary PHP execution, it's an exploit chain resulting in arbitrary code execution.

Indeed, an attacker theoretically can access anything the PHP process has permission to access. However even without limiting permissions (also a good idea) that means the simple/published exploits won't work on your server, and there's a high chance criminals will look for other targets, assuming you're not targeted.

Presumably this makes SELinux enabled distros like fedora are significantly less vulnerable, as the PHP process can only access files in a few contexts?

You know how "resulting in a shell" works?

By corrupting memory and causing the CPU to jump from the intended instruction to a different one controlled by the attacker, at which point their instructions control what your process does next. Getting shell does not mean getting it to feed a spicy string to system(), it means tricking something in the process into overwriting memory with bytes that, if read as instructions, tell the CPU to make a system call to spawn a different process running arbitrary code.

You could do that to an internet-connected toaster with a JPEG. The system() function has nothing to do with it.


I can guarantee you that it's not because someone left system() enabled, it's much lower than that.

What is lower than what? This exploit causes the flow of control to reach zend_call_function with the argument "system". It works at the PHP level and having disabled that function is an absolute defense against the exploit.

It isn't 1998 any more and you can no longer just inject shell code on the heap.


The current PoC in the public gets there via that method, and even then you don't need to call system() alone to cause hell on a host...

The point of this thread, and of defense in depth generally, is to limit the scale of "hell" and to trivialize the impact of "on the host".

Look, at the end of the day, every major security researcher is going "oh shit" and no amount of tweaks to your configuration is going to limit the blast radius in a way that will actually matter. You're going to need to update PHP, that's the _only_ solution to this problem.

"Shell" in security parlance is just a standin (or the standard benchmark for) for arbitrary unrestricted code execution. If you can launch a shell you can do anything the process user can.

The biggest frustration for a lot of people is that their municipalities use Twitter almost exclusively to communicate with their constituents, it _sucks_. I've pleaded and begged my city and county to have some other form of communication, in addition to Twitter/X, to mass distribute information.


Many municipalities have text message alerts these days. I doubt it’s 100% coverage but I bet most of us can live with that or currently do.


My municipality does! Guess what they still don't really use... most of it still ends up on X exclusively.


Be the change to want to see. Mirror their tweets on cityname.com


It is pretty easy to do plugins and custom themes in Discourse, most look the same just because the UX is good enough and we don't live in an era of hyper customization that early 2000s forums did. A good example of a pretty customized Discourse install is the Blizzard forums: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/blizzard/ and Unreal: https://forums.unrealengine.com/categories?tag=unreal-engine


Discourse UX is so much worse than phpBB because it merges all categories.


God, I'm hoping that this phraseology changes with the new CEO, I am so tired of that overused statement haha.


Didn’t Steve Jobs use that formula as well? The most powerful thing we released compared to last year’s thing we released?


He loved the term “revolutionary”


A woman can dream!


Looking at the Sep 9 event, better luck time.


Especially given, you know, the minority share that Deepmind bought a few months back haha.


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