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It is this way with all art. If you ask someone to describe a work which is “good art” or “well designed”, it usually takes longer to describe than things which are considered too simple (easily compressed) and also longer to describe than things which are considered too random (easily compressed). But not all things which take this Goldilocks amount of words to describe are considered well designed, just some of them. So art is also more than that.

How does this handle modern art which is very incompressible too? If we take your hypothesis then one could say modern art isn't good, which some do say.

There are things that can not be expressed in words, but which can still be expressed. Some of modern art lives within that gap.

Even traditional art often tries to do more than compress concepts, it tries to express the inexpressible.

Linguistic determinism/relativity (Sapir-Worf, etc) explains some of it. People can FEEL that their thoughts are being constrained by language, but they don't know how to express that and maybe don't even consciously realize that it's their real problem. They just figure out that art makes it feel a little better so they do art.


Yes, modern art is literal trash with no redeemable qualities.

You no like van Gogh?

Van Gogh lived in the XIX century. How many centuries must pass before we stop calling that modern? What words should we use for things which are actually modern?

Modern art is a technical term in art history. Maybe 20th century art? But even then I'll bet people can find something made in the 20th century they like. Maybe they'll have to give us more info about what they mean by "modern art".

Here are some example 21st century painters: https://medium.com/@John_Dalton/living-masters-the-top-13-re...


I know that. I’m arguing the term is dumb, since it waters down the natural meaning of words, making it harder to communicate effectively. Art historians should come up with a different, more specific term.

Art historians are the ones who invented the term. Arguably it's everyone else who has tried to redefine it into something else.

Art historians invented the word “modern”?

Contemporary.

If anything, art history defines "modern" later than the real historical meaning ("modern art" starts in the 1860s after the invention of photography). In history modernity starts in the 1500s - in Western culture history is divided into ancient (dawn of civilization to fall of Rome), medieval (fall of Rome to the Renaissance) and modern (Renaissance to now). You'd need a fall of civilization or something to justify a new era.

One thing I have found in playing a lot of jazz off of lead sheets is that while you can really play some deep and idiomatic music in all the jazz forms, it's almost impossible to recreate much of modern rock by compressing it to a lead sheet.

Especially with the less progressive forms of rock that I enjoy more than the "pedantic" stuff (like various flavors of progressive metal), it gets hard to make "the thing" based off of a reduction of the music to a form.

Like, you can play the fully-notated versions of metallica songs and pull them off, but without a whole lot of notation and rehearsal you're going to have a hard time getting "the thing".

And you're really going to have a hard time pulling off the noisy parts of Neutral Milk Hotel I loved so much without notating a whole lot of that noise which becomes important to the work- so much so that in those generas people don't even bother to play other peoples' work because you only get into an uncanny valley around the artist's affective presentation and personality. That might be the excess you're describing as "more than"- I'd point you to Georges Bataille if you're actually interested in that kind of thing.

What I enjoy about that noisy music is the noise, which is difficult to notate and compress and transmit to other musicians; from where I stand as a musician, noise is what is lost when the art is compressed to its formal notation.

With all the older blues and jazz forms I enjoy (Django or Louis Armstrong or Danny Barker) I can get on stage and perform fairly complex music with minimal or no rehearsal- as long as someone knows the melody the tunes are playable. The "essential" parts of the music are not simple, but there is a lot of history and education in the players about how to properly rehydrate the music.

I wouldn't say that old jazz music or the musicians are "good-er" than the rock and metal folks, though most of the jazz musicians I know also do play pop gigs while pop musicians might have a harder time sitting in.

But it's just not as fun to solo over the changes to Iggy Pop's "I wanna Be Your Dog" or the Ramones "I wanna be sedated" and the skill sets for being able to come up with a part on the fly are different than they are for prodigiously performing a piece note-for-note (which is the same in classically oriented music as it is in indy rock bands, though the memo-ization methods are much different).

While I can't say the music is better, I personally find the chord progressions of older jazz forms easier to solo over because they have more interesting (to me) features. Lately I have a harder and harder time finding engaging-to-me things to play over a 2 chord funk jam or a 3 chord country song, whereas I really enjoy blowing over stuff like Basin St. Blues or Nuages.

My point being that the decoders for these improvisational forms often are doing a lot more interpretive work in decompressing a lead sheet out into music-in-the-world than the folks who are playing note-for-note parts that they've worked out from recordings and that are specific to the tune.

Since the decoders are doing more work, the music becomes quite a bit more "compressible" while retaining a lot of its complexity. "Autumn Leaves" is not "simpler" than "I Wanna Be Sedated", but it more easily compresses into a transmittable form without losing that essential excess that makes me like the Ramones.

With the jazz or blues or bluegrass or old-time or older country dance music or folk, the decoders only need someone in the band who knows (most of) the chords and the lyrics and the complexity of the resulting music is largely up to how the folks playing it decide to play it.

Tonight I am playing pedal steel at a dance and have never played with the band, and that's not big deal because a) I have stored reduced versions of the tunes in my body and b) I have a bunch of strategies for quickly decoding what the other musicians are doing and responding appropriately.

But the music itself isn't simple. "Friends in Low Places" (and much of country and western swing) has more in common with older jazz than with modern rock, and I have worked with a lot of truly bad musicians who think that because a lot of the songs are 3-chord tunes the music doesn't require some attention to play idiomatically.

So with music, it's easy and fun to add the noise back in if you know what to add, but it's not (in my opinion) the case that "simple" music is easily compressed: the "simpler" the music is (at least in the west) the more it relies on the specifics of the noise it produces in order to create its artistic effects, and thus simpler music less compressible.

So from my standpoint, it's very difficult to compress good, "simple" and "noisy" rock music, whereas the more specific designs of stuff like jazz is much easier to compress and transmit.


No one would ever know. She’d just continue being a terror, on her own, with no one to moderate her or how she behaves around the kids.


It takes years to build the habit of being able to be present at work and give it your best, no matter how much you “care” about the actual work. People are relying on you either way, and those habits and mindsets carry into other areas of your life. You may as well give it an honest effort, and be proud knowing you’re someone who shows up and can be relied on.


That's no habit, that's psychological maladaptation. I recommend reading "To Have or To Be?" from Erich Fromm.


Yeah, I suppose it does take a long time to learn how to live a lie.


Shouldn’t it be a part of your character? It’s what you spend most of your waking hours doing.


[flagged]

Personal attacks are against the site guidelines. Don't post like that here.


Younger, terminally online people are largely degenerates. You’re just being sensationalist.


I don’t know, it has taken me months to onboard onto any codebase I’ve ever worked on.


It’s research. It’s not for anyone, until someone who needs it sees it and starts using it.


Most required readings are just boy books. Not being part of the intended audience gives you understanding of other people.


The closest analogy I can think of to The Great Gatsby is American Psycho. The whole point of it is to feel like a pretentious act played by the characters. They’re not meant to be relatable or show growth. I guess it’s one of those things that either resonates with you or doesn’t, but it still has value in “getting it.” Most people never escape their status chase and behavior loops.


So basically, no one knows the correct spelling or where it came from, but in true redditor fashion everyone insists it’s the more intellectual option and everyone who disagrees is an idiot.


I'd not seen the spelling "sike" until today; but I've been spelling it "psych" since I was in grade school in the early 70's. Definitely derives from "psyching someone out", i.e., confusing them or tricking them (in that I first heard "psych" as shorthand for "psych out"). I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's older than that.


I use "psych" too. Bummed me out when I learned "sike" was the correct spelling.


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