Their goals are to survive and control the strait of Ormuz. And they will do both because eventually the US will pull out, because to try to hold the strait is a financial drain. Just like Afghanistan. So it's a waiting game and everyone knows Iran will win. Orange man can say he won every day and after a year, 5 years, 10 years, 50 years eventually the US will have to admit defeat.
> Their goals are to survive and control the strait of Ormuz.
The surrounding states, which have been attacked by Iran and use the strait to export their oil, should grow a pair, close their borders with Iran, and use all the weapons they bought over the years from the U.S. and finish off once and for all the "Islamic Republic." It seems that, at last, the Saudis are stepping up to the plate and doing something about the Houthis. This is all because they did not finish the job last time.
As I just said before, if this was their only goal, they could have had it decades ago by choosing peace instead of funding proxy milita groups en mass.
The fact that they fund all they proxy groups shows that actually yes they have other goals beyond surviving (They they are quickly failing to achieve as their proxy groups get dismantled), and they are actually willing to risk war and risk their survival to attempt to achieve them.
Quite the contrary. It doesn't matter what Iran does: their crime is existing without being under the control of the US. The US installed a puppet regime in Iran in 1953, and had a powerful vassal in the middle east, close to the Soviet Union. They freed themselves in 1979, gaining control of their own resources, and the US never forgave them for it. The only way the US would have allowed them to go on existing without attacking would be for them to become slaves again.
The whole tale of the 1953 supposed US "coup" has been started and amplified by Soviet propaganda, then taken up by the Islamists and their wilful servants, as we can see here. The coup was Mosaddegh's; the Shah prevented it. Read some real history.
As for "freeing" themselves in 1979... please talk to some actual Iranians and ask them how much of their country's resources are actually benefitting them, instead of going to regional terror proxies and into enriching corrupt Mullahs so that their sons and daughters could go live in luxury in the West they so despise. Ask them, too, how "free" they really feel.
How much of the countries resources oil money beforehand was going to Iranians and benefiting them instead of going to a foreign British company? If that is your complain that nothing has changed other than the manager.
JCPOA was horrible. It was a lifeline to the regime and allowed it to build a massive arsenal of drones, ballistic missiles, etc., while it got to keep underground enrichment facilities. That nuclear program did not have a civilian purpose, its sole purpose was projecting power in the region and intimidating Israel.
The only durable way achieve peace in the Mideast is the collapse of Iran and of its regional proxies. Disarming Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis is a necessity before things like rebuilding Gaza is possible at all.
What are Israel's "regional proxies", and how have they been acting against peace in the region in any way that's more destabilizing than Hamas, Hezbollah, Hashd ash-Shaabi, the Houthis, the Fatimioun, the Zainabioun, and all those other tentacles of the occupying Islamic regime in Iran?
Israel has 100+ nuclear weapons dude. And if it was in any real danger of actually being collapsed, I can promise you that it would use them. You better hope that never happens and instead Iran makes peace with them.
Its called mutually assured destruction bro. Every country in the world would use their nukes if they were actually under threat of destruction.
Thats the point of having nukes. For them to be used as a deterent against collapse.
> All the more reason to check
They have the nukes already dude! They aren't going away. They aren't going to be destroyed. And the nukes don't disappear just because funding stops going to them.
The point being, the destruction of Israel would just result in all of their enemies being destroyed along with them, so you better hope it doesn't happen.
Israel doesn't need to be destroyed. The best time to solve the Israeli problem was of course during 1947. Its unfortunate that Britain got so weak at that point, ideally they should have instituted a militant zero tolerance marshal law there and shot on sight any Israeli or Arab terrorist. Israel can still be peacefully south africaed.
They aren't going to massively change their demographics. They will never agree to that, and they would have to be invaded to achieve anything close to that. Which brings up back to them haveing 100+ nuclear weapons.
This goal of destroying israel, or massively changing their demographics has caused hundreds of thousands of arabs to die, over and over again, wasting on a doomed goal, seeing as Israel has a modern military and nuclear weapons that they would absolutely use if their military was at risk of being defeat.
The actual peaceful solutions look something like Jordan or Egypt, which are perfectly able to be at peace.
Its not about arabs. I said south africa to mean hardline global sanctions and refusal to trade. If they want to nuke everyone just because people don't like trading with them, they are free to demonstrate their psychosis. Public opinion in the USA is changing, who knows what the future holds. If US support vanishes, Israel will have to scale down their hyperterrorism by a lot.
Again, the best solution would have been if Britain had refused to budge against Zionist terrorist attacks on innocent Brits, and instead prosecuted and executed them brutally, instituted a ruthless and militant martial rule there and shot all agitators on sight, and also done things like tax breaks for mixed marriages, etc. Since that golden opportunity for sanity and stability is gone, we have to see what the current options are.
> If they want to nuke everyone just because people don't like trading with them
Nobody is going to nuke people over trade.
But, if the only thing that happens is that there are trade sanctions, well seeing as Israel considers changing up their country's demographics an existential threat, well it isn't going to end the state of Israel and nothing short of military action will cause that to happen.
Its certainly possible to motivate Israel to make some changes, but its not going to let itself be destroyed, nor will it ever accept 10 million immigrants into the country, and there would have to be military action to every make that happen.
The point being, Israel isn't going away. Its not going to be destroy. And if it was every a real threat, well they'd use the nukes.
Peace is certainly possible though. If the only thing you want is for both the existing middle east militant groups and Israel to stop fighting each other, and everyone exists where they are today, then great that peace is absolutely possible.
Who said it has to accept immigrants? How can immigrants accept other immigrants? They just have to self deport back to their original countries. The point of a blockade is if others feel unsatisfied they can keep blockading them, including if some countries wishes, completely closing off their land and sea borders to Israel. What they do next is not my concern. Its their self created mess to solve. And if they want to use nukes over such an insane point, then the world far outnumbers them in nuke count and many countries have second strike capabilities. Something worth remembering.
>Peace is certainly possible though. If the only thing you want is for both the existing middle east militant groups and Israel to stop fighting each other, and everyone exists where they are today, then great that peace is absolutely possible.
It is, and under current situations its only going to happen if Israel is occupied by a brutal external military force that uses complete merciless totalitarian approach to any terrorism from any side. Nothing short of that is a peaceful solution unfortunately.
> They just have to self deport back to their original countries.
No actually. They would rather fight till the end than be ethnically cleansed (the vast majority of people being born there). They will never do that, and it would require military action to get anywhere close to that.
At which point it brings us back to the fact that they have a modern military and nuclear weapons, so military action won't work.
> What they do next is not my concern
Well, if peace isn't possible what would almost certainly happen is that most of the Palestinians will be kicked out. I mean, if it is that or them being kicked out, like what you propose, obviously they will fight to win.
> Nothing short of that is a peaceful solution unfortunately.
Oh I fully agree that the arab population isn't going to stop fighting. What is almost certainly going to happen is that peace won't happen and Israel will simply Win The Conflict, by exporting most of the gazan population.
I mean, the rest of the world is barely doing anything against them. They have little reason not to at this point, if peace isn't possible.
Which is sad, but hey. Thats war. It is unfortunate though just how many arab lives have been scarificed for nothing though, failing to achieve an impossible goal. Impossible because Israel is never going to let itself be destroy nor ethnically cleansed, and the rest of the world is barely doing anything against it, and, you know that modern military + nuclear weapons.
> And if they want to use nukes over such an insane point
Nukes would only be used in the case of a military invasion that seriously threatens them. If its just trade embargoes, and local militant conflicts, Israel would simply weather the storm, and/or kick out all the palestinians if they don't stop throwing their lives away for nothing.
> then the world far outnumbers
The rest of the world isn't doing shit right now dude. And the point is that no invasion is going to happen of Israel, precisely because of the nuclear weapons. Nobody is going to nuke anyway, nor will any other countries take action, and if the palestinians keep fighting for nothing the end result is that they will probably just be kicked out pretty soon.
Obviously peace isn't possible due to a country of violent terrorist ingrates who stole Birtish land and have the temerity to claim they are natives to a land whose legal ownership is rightfully British and whose de facto ownership has been that of arabs and turks for centuries. Other than the 6% or so of land parcels where zionists legally migrated, every other area is Israel is illicitly squatted. Which again circles back to British weakness causing this mess. Two big blunders, gifting their land to random east european foreigners, and secondly to cave in to their violent terrorism and mass murder of innocent British in the King David Hotel Bombing, Sergeants Affair etc. By all rights Britain had the moral right to completely raze the terrorists and their supporters and shoot down the invading ships. But British turned pussy due to being weakned by WW2.
It is simply common sense for any country that is not the USA to develop nukes against the USA. It doesn't matter what your morality is or if you are a dictatorship or democracy, the USA just gets strange ideas and starts shooting and bombing random countries sometimes.
Mostly yes. Just a small correction - Iran does not need to collapse; its occupying Islamic regime does. It's what has already driven Iran into pretty much a state of collapse already; when it's gone Iran can be rebuilt.
If Israel stopped randomly invading sovereign countries and launching missiles anywhere and everywhere into unrelated foreign countries like Dubai, spraying chemical toxins on farms in random countries, then real peace could have been achieved.
That's true: Obama bucked the trend. Overall, there were still many powerful interests in the US who despised Iran waiting to take power. I'd still call it just a matter of time.
You are going to go back a whole 70 years to make your point? Isn't it time to get over it?
All the surrounding governments are at peace with everyone else. Iran could have had the same thing if it wanted. All it had to do what stop funding proxy militant groups.
The US government is perfectly able to make peace with countries like Egypt and Jordan. Because those countries aren't funding proxy groups to destabilize the region.
As soon as Iran stops shooting missiles at tankers and stops funding militant groups, peace would be achieved.
Why is it America's business? If Iranians and Israelis want to kill each other they are free to, why should American resources and lives be wasted in irrelevant foreign wars.
