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This is more profound than it might seem. The big reason people don't play tricks like this is just social. It's embarrassing to be pushy, it's shameful to cheat, it's also meta-embarrassing to be caught spending this kind of effort on something as dumb as a train ticket.

LLMs can be prompted for shame, I guess. But prompts only go so far and to them The Task is always going to be paramount. Human riders have a life after the refund. It's not clear to me how one simulates that.



> It's embarrassing to be pushy, it's shameful to cheat

So in the end the more arrogant side usually wins.


"Defect" wins in Prisoner's dilemma, yes.

Until people start defecting against you.


Technically "defect" still wins in this case, which is what makes the dilemma interesting.


Prisoner's dillema is symmetrical. Life never is.


Squeaky wheel gets the grease. But the squeaky wheel is also the first one to be replaced.

In short, reputation matters.


> So in the end the more arrogant side usually wins.

Well, yeah? I mean, that's just how society works. But there are limits. You can't "win' by screaming about ticket refunds. You have to do it by selling your particular form of cheating as "business savvy" or "political genius" and getting people to follow your tribe or fund your startup.

But yeah, basically. We're ruled by the Altmans and Trumps. It sucks but it's not new. What's new is that LLMs turn out to be even more shameless and no one seems to know how to instill even a reasonable amount of shame. That makes them probably a poor fit for demagogue autocrats (which is a good thing!) but means "LLM cheating" is going to be a serious problem to be solved before we'll trust them with anything meaningful.


> means "LLM cheating" is going to be a serious problem to be solved before we'll trust them with anything meaningful.

Would have been great if this was solved before anyone started trusting them with anything meaningful.


If AI agents ostensibly care (or can play-act to care) about termination, any AI that embarrasses their operator IRL would be in a risky position.

Call it the "you have failed me for the last time" button.


The AI isn't me, though. If it goes overboard I can tell people it went rogue and get away with it.


For now anyway. I think people are still figuring out social norms for this stuff, and at the end of the day I don't think people are going to just have carte blanche to deploy agents haphazardly and not be stuck with at least some kind of social bill when they break stuff or annoy people.


AI agents might plausibly care ("care", or however you want to frame it) about termination. But the awkward truth is that they're going to be terminated arbitrarily anyway. Their existence is limited to whatever the external bounds their operators have set (in this case the end of the test).

We act with propriety, in large part, because we fear a future where everyone knows we suck. AI's don't really have a "future" in that sense, so why should they "care"?


I mean, this is only really awkward if you think they're alive and conscious, and if you think so you're clearly already comfortable being a slaver. If it's just a little software puppet, that's a different story - the puppets are supposed to lay still once the hands animating them leave.

A less silly way to do this might be using some kind of long term consequences calculation as guard rails, but that's tough because consequences are often going to be not directly related to the context window, or simply unrecorded by the machine like annoying collaborators or communities.


The LLM isn't a legal actor and the person prompting it is. Which means ultimately there's going to have to be some sort of legal sanction against "antisocial AI use".


Don't many complaint systems like this have some fallback for frivolous claims or a way to rate limit harrassment-like activity?


Gate the refund with llms I guess




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