There are directives that prevent using clergy and missionary work as a cover for intelligence operations, and a longstanding prohibition for using the peace corps.
That Bin Laden operation was so insanely short-sighted in the use of a vaccine program for spying. Completely erodes trust where it should never have eroded, and rightfully contributed to antivax mentality, not just in Pakistan, but also in the US. "Trust us, we're doctors" means nothing.
Oh well. They shouldn’t have harbored bin Laden. Whatever justification about “loss of trust” you can use here anyone else gets to use too. There was a loss of trust from Dr. Fauci (not by me, I got the vaccine ASAP and wore a mask until restrictions were lifted) by some because of actions taken.
I'm talking about choices made by people doing the hunting. I don't know why you're absolving them as if all choices are good choices. It takes more than a circumstance to justify an action.
I like a win. But a clean win is worth being proud of. It would actually be really cool not to shoot yourself in the foot, I think.
I’m just saying it’s justified, not that it was or is the best choice available. Nobody really knows what choices are available. Pakistan and its people made a choice to harbor bin Laden - they certainly had choices that we don’t need to absolve them for either.
No, my position is closer to that our actions were justified and they (Pakistan, its government, its people) are responsible for harboring bin Laden. They aren’t like doomed forever because of some CIA scheme that helped uncover where that piece of shit is hiding.
If they’re not responsible then everyone else gets to claim not being responsible for the actions of their governments too.
To me there'a a difference between claining citizens having a moral responsibilty for the actions of their government, and some other entity deciding that all of some countrys citizen deserve to be punished for the crimes of said government.
The US government has murdered a lot more civilians than Bin Laden ever did, but there's not really anyone arguing for broad collective punishment of its citizens (well, ecept for thr Bin Laden-likes)
> To me there'a a difference between claining citizens having a moral responsibilty for the actions of their government, and some other entity deciding that all of some countrys citizen deserve to be punished for the crimes of said government.
Sure but that’s a claim you made up, it’s not one I am asserting. For example the US isn’t punishing the people of Pakistan, it simply enacted a temporary and targeted scheme to kill bin Laden. There may be other effects but any action anyone or any country takes has other effects. The government of Pakistan harbored bin Laden and then an effect of that might have been temporary vaccine skepticism. But those are choices the government of Pakistan and the people of Pakistan make too. They are also responsible.
> The US government has murdered a lot more civilians than Bin Laden ever did, but there's not really anyone arguing for broad collective punishment of its citizens (well, ecept for thr Bin Laden-likes)
By that logic the German government, Chinese government, and Russian government have murdered even more.
The US doesn’t intentionally murder civilians though which is a key difference. Results matter but intentions do too.
No, because they are children, but their parents and government are directly responsible.
Your view here is a very western colonial one in which you infantalize other people and cultures and believe you are superior and thus must help them, they have no responsibility for their own actions, and so forth.
If the people of Pakistan (or anywhere) are deprived of their agency as you are here to suggest, then we must colonize them for their own good, set up the institutions, take over their ministry of health, and so forth. That’s how the children get their Polio vaccines. I do not propose this because I do not hold these views, but you cannot escape the effects of the viewpoint in which you espouse here.
That Bin Laden operation was so insanely short-sighted in the use of a vaccine program for spying. Completely erodes trust where it should never have eroded, and rightfully contributed to antivax mentality, not just in Pakistan, but also in the US. "Trust us, we're doctors" means nothing.