Anyone looking at this should recognize that the hardware itself is nearly a decade old (and has performance of a mid-range Android from 11 or 12 years ago), the software is buggy and not fully baked (the version of Debian they JUST moved to has lost normal Debian Security team updates and maintenance has moved to the Debian LTS team) and the company has a history of extreme delays in shipping and customer service.
People can spend their money however they choose, but I wouldn’t spend $1800 on a phone like that if you want to actually use it as a phone. And before buying it as underpowered “portable” Linux computer (the battery life is not good even though I hear suspend mostly works now), this is still outrageously overpriced even by current hardware pricing.
All valid points to consider.
I'd like to add that I'm for one don't need the latest and greatest apps, don't run games so email, SMS, messaging, YouTube or Netflix are all that are needed in terms of compute.
I'm surprised even those things work for you considering how unbearably slow Phosh and Linux apps are on the Furiphone with much more modern everything.
The slowness of Phosh is purely a consequence of the current, unoptimized software state. When I run Waydroid on PureOS on my Librem 5, it feels much smoother, despite being another layer on top of the OS.
I find it interesting to track the reality of using these free-er devices well after launch. Sadly it always seems incredibly painful and hinted at post-launch improvements tend to be small if they come at all.
I wish these devices were ready to be viable alternatives for anyone not possessing a religious extremist's level of zeal for it, but they's still so far from ready. It's a shame, since we need something like this to be viable.
The promise of, 'it's FOSS and these issues will be addressed,' sure didn't pan out with the PinePhone Pro, and it isn't panning out for the Librem 5. And that's setting aside hardware specs that would have been challenging over a decade ago.
It turns out that when the basic user experience is terrible, adoption rates are almost non-existent, and therefore nobody develops for it. The companies themselves have also done a seriously insufficient job of supporting their devices.
I'm getting tired of all this exaggeration. I don't think there's any significant component in the Librem 5 that has even existed a decade ago already. Perhaps the audio codec. Sure, it can be underwhelming today when it comes to performance, but it's still usable and was absolutely nowhere near "challenging" back when it was fresh - also, the software got significantly more usable and performant over time. I have recently booted an image from around 2020, the progress was stunning.
Then read more closely. I didn't say the components existed a decade ago. The performance level of that SoC would have been challenging to get what typical phone users would consider a good experience out of a decade ago. The 2016 Pixel 1, for example was a much higher performance device. Apple's iPhones from that era required considerable tradeoffs to achieve the performance they did.
Some owners apparently disagree with you that the Librem 5 still usable. One, who shills for it tirelessly, states the need to disable JS to render some modern sites, a tradeoff he's happy to make, and that's his right, but to recommend something with such a heavy caveat as the solution to nearly every problem is inane. If you're looking for exaggeration, there it is.
There are valid reasons very few people use them. The situation won't get better by pretending the device is something it isn't. We need an open modern device, and the Librem 5 just isn't it, despite the loud assertions of a few to the contrary.
Sorry? Pixel 1 was a 2016 high-end mainstream phone that costed about the same as a niche and low-volume Linux phone in its crowdfunding campaign just a year later. It's actually fairly similar spec-wise to Librem 5, with exception of its noticeably more powerful GPU. Both these phones have some features the other doesn't.
Some owners disagree, others agree. For what it's worth, I don't disable JavaScript on my phone's browser.
So, a 2016 flagship phone available for purchase in 2016 benchmarks at about 2x the Librem 5, not factoring in the noticeably more powerful GPU, as you mention. The Pixel 3a, a midrange phone that shipped in 2019, opens that gap up considerably. By the time many (most?) people got their Librem 5, the 3a was already an old device.
Of course, I don't expect a low-volume crowdfunded niche Linux phone to hit a major OEM's price/performance targets. Nobody should.
What I don't see a good way around is framing it as anything other than low-to-midrange performance chipset even in its day (whenever that actually was). Which is fine, tradeoffs were made, but tradeoffs they were. Something can still be viable for a small subset of people, while ultimately quite long in the tooth for the broader market.
I'm glad you're happy with it as a device. Thanks for posting your photos.
> the need to disable JS to render some modern sites
You hatred towards Librem 5 spread all over HN prevents you from correctly reading my statements. The correct statement is "I disable JS for more security and for unreasonably JS-heavy websites. I do have it on when I want."
Device choice is good. I'm glad the device is an available option for people whose need it meets, and I would welcome a major refresh which addresses its shortcomings so it can have wider viability.
It's low-effort, endless and often misleading shilling I object to.
Thinking back, the last time I had to disable JS to load JS-heavy websites on my phone was probably around 2011, maybe 2012. My more recent experience with JS blocking on desktop operating systems tells me that many JS-heavy websites tend to break pretty badly without it. A few content sites get significantly better without JS, but dependencies like banking and utilities sites mostly no longer work without it. I'm sure everyone's experiences will vary based on their particular needs.
Nearly all phone users have JS enabled by default, and therefore without necessarily realizing it probably expect it to just work.
I don't think it's reasonable to promote, in threads about almost every other phone (no matter how off-topic), an $800 device without at least mentioning that it may require them to make very basic and fundamental compromises to use it.
'Have you considered a GNU/Linux phone? Sent from my Librem 5" is just empty and repetitious shilling at this point. Anyone who's ever seen almost any of your comments here has now heard of it due to your promotion of it.
To elevate discourse above shallow shilling, please consider mentioning any of the compromises somebody may need to address, and then explain why said compromises are worth it in your particular case, and how you got around its limitations (and every device has them). When people say it's not viable for them, consider that they may actually be right about that. Nobody would bother to call you out if you did that.
It's entirely possible for people to find your way of promoting it tiring, without hating you or the device.
A good comment teaches us something. The above is one way to actually do so, while still promoting that which you apparently must. Call this a personal attack if you like, but it isn't: it's an attack on endless and banal promotion of what I maintain would be an expensive disappointment for many, maybe even most, buyers.
Edit: There's a lot of very reasoned pro-Librem-5 thinking in this thread worth noting: https://forums.puri.sm/t/each-update-makes-my-librem5-worse/... Notice how they acknowledge complexity, and their comments don't sound like they could mostly be replaced by a few clipboard presets.
Most distributors are based in the US with the exception of large integrated circuits that are made in a variety of countries where those companies do fabrication (US, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan); an example is the NXP CPU we use from their fabrication in South Korea.
Boards:
M.2 Modem Module China, inquire for USA/EU options
M.2 WiFi/BT Module India, inquire for more options
It's not going to win the market, but I applaud anyone providing more choices.
Even if you're sour on American exceptionalism, this seems like a valid and good product to me, both from a privacy standpoint and from an ethical labor standpoint?
Am I the only one who remembers the suicide nets at Foxconn?
https://puri.sm/products/liberty-phone/